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BatMUD Forums > Guilds > Re: Martial arts vs everything else = not in balance
This was discussed shortly in bat channel 30.12. I saw some people(highbies)
defending monks with the new skills, meaning they do damage once you train
them. It still doesn't remove the fact that the highbies are using different
ways to autoattack than martial arts because martial arts lacks in damage. You
can with 100 fists combo, use I think it was at least 1 if not 2 weapons in
your hands, removing the need of martials arts completely. Why not do something
about that? It clearly says there's something wrong with martial arts. Either
drop the martial arts crazy high skillcost since it seems to be a skill that no
one would use anyway. Or make any kind of monkguildcombo unable to use weapons.
Or lower the damage on weapons(something that should have happened a long time
ago imo). Currently normal attacks with weapons do so much more damage than
skills in offtank reincs, that's why every guild(like monks) do everything they
can to use some kind of weapons.
If I compare my last reinc(reaver) with this monk reinc I am now. I had the
same gear but obviously with reaver axes. I hit shred/hshred/slash with the
damage eq I have now on and that was pretty nice, mobs took 10-15% shape drop
from 1 hit. Now with monk I hit punch, shove, grab, all that kind of not so
impressive hit messages.. Now then.. I could go for full damage gear to get
something out of martial arts and do more than 5% of mob hp with 4 hits in a
round but.. since I'm grelic now and a monk, I need to use a race(as I'm not a
highbie) that actually has the possibility to be one without boons and lots of
exp. Therefore I'm using a catfolk for whom I can get decent str,wis,dex and
con for. However, HPmax is still low and therefore I need avoidance from my eq
to stay alive in the first place. So I would hope, I'd do a bit higher damage
with martial arts to be a bit closer to the damage of a weapon wielding
character, afterall I've paid 40m for 100% in the skill, where weapon wielders
pay only 2-5m or just raise the sucky weaponskill% to 100 in no time if they
can't instantly get it there due getting it from secondary guilds like
bludgeons from tarmalen. I could of course just use this myself and be happy
but it just feels wrong.
defending monks with the new skills, meaning they do damage once you train
them. It still doesn't remove the fact that the highbies are using different
ways to autoattack than martial arts because martial arts lacks in damage. You
can with 100 fists combo, use I think it was at least 1 if not 2 weapons in
your hands, removing the need of martials arts completely. Why not do something
about that? It clearly says there's something wrong with martial arts. Either
drop the martial arts crazy high skillcost since it seems to be a skill that no
one would use anyway. Or make any kind of monkguildcombo unable to use weapons.
Or lower the damage on weapons(something that should have happened a long time
ago imo). Currently normal attacks with weapons do so much more damage than
skills in offtank reincs, that's why every guild(like monks) do everything they
can to use some kind of weapons.
If I compare my last reinc(reaver) with this monk reinc I am now. I had the
same gear but obviously with reaver axes. I hit shred/hshred/slash with the
damage eq I have now on and that was pretty nice, mobs took 10-15% shape drop
from 1 hit. Now with monk I hit punch, shove, grab, all that kind of not so
impressive hit messages.. Now then.. I could go for full damage gear to get
something out of martial arts and do more than 5% of mob hp with 4 hits in a
round but.. since I'm grelic now and a monk, I need to use a race(as I'm not a
highbie) that actually has the possibility to be one without boons and lots of
exp. Therefore I'm using a catfolk for whom I can get decent str,wis,dex and
con for. However, HPmax is still low and therefore I need avoidance from my eq
to stay alive in the first place. So I would hope, I'd do a bit higher damage
with martial arts to be a bit closer to the damage of a weapon wielding
character, afterall I've paid 40m for 100% in the skill, where weapon wielders
pay only 2-5m or just raise the sucky weaponskill% to 100 in no time if they
can't instantly get it there due getting it from secondary guilds like
bludgeons from tarmalen. I could of course just use this myself and be happy
but it just feels wrong.
Rating:
2
Votes:
7
Ok, let's try to refute some of the points..
100% long blades with 100+% racemax wolfman:
Skill: Long blades: 10461354 (0.57068%)
So no, it's not 'few' megs. 100% martial arts isn't even twice as much, but I
cannot be bothered to go to monk guild to check the actual cost. If you
overtrain over your racial max, it's your own fault and gets expensive no
matter what skill we're talking about.
I like the logic of 'because I do not have <boons/gear/whatever> to do damage,
martial arts should still match geared offtank damage', because then every
geared offtank would be using martial arts.
Then, about the damage message envy: Yes, I incisively tear with my torso maker
every now and then (seen CRUELLY REND or two this reinc too in crits), but it
hits about once every 2 rounds and some of those swings miss; at marts maximum
speed, I hit less than lcut, but 4-5 of them per round => it DOES even out even
if you do not get sexy damage messages. Oddly enough decent sblade-wielding
barso sabres/aelenas/stuff outdamage me by wide margin, despite their average
hit message being ~tear.
So to summarize: Yes, restore martial arts to it's ~95 glory when it was good
enough for soloing Burgle, and fuck all of these expensive weapons.
(Second reason for barsos outdamaging most people in the 'p stats' is the
fixed, stupid dex-based hitting order, but perhaps I could post my own whine
post about that and not steal your martial arts upgrade thread - I applaud any
upgrades I can make while selling gear so go ahead, upgrade marts! Now!
Please!)
100% long blades with 100+% racemax wolfman:
Skill: Long blades: 10461354 (0.57068%)
So no, it's not 'few' megs. 100% martial arts isn't even twice as much, but I
cannot be bothered to go to monk guild to check the actual cost. If you
overtrain over your racial max, it's your own fault and gets expensive no
matter what skill we're talking about.
I like the logic of 'because I do not have <boons/gear/whatever> to do damage,
martial arts should still match geared offtank damage', because then every
geared offtank would be using martial arts.
Then, about the damage message envy: Yes, I incisively tear with my torso maker
every now and then (seen CRUELLY REND or two this reinc too in crits), but it
hits about once every 2 rounds and some of those swings miss; at marts maximum
speed, I hit less than lcut, but 4-5 of them per round => it DOES even out even
if you do not get sexy damage messages. Oddly enough decent sblade-wielding
barso sabres/aelenas/stuff outdamage me by wide margin, despite their average
hit message being ~tear.
So to summarize: Yes, restore martial arts to it's ~95 glory when it was good
enough for soloing Burgle, and fuck all of these expensive weapons.
(Second reason for barsos outdamaging most people in the 'p stats' is the
fixed, stupid dex-based hitting order, but perhaps I could post my own whine
post about that and not steal your martial arts upgrade thread - I applaud any
upgrades I can make while selling gear so go ahead, upgrade marts! Now!
Please!)
Rating:
1
Votes:
1
I think the main issue with Marts is the fact that the wizzes are less
inclined to give every newbie the ability to hit equivalent of auto-loading
vorpals just by spending some exp on a skill. EQ monsters are there for a
reason. They are the end game content and they radically make your char
better. No one would bother to kill eq mobs if just training marts to 100 gave
you better hitting than using weapons.
Obviously there's a balance issue that has to be considered. I think
ultimately, the solution will be a recode of Monks and potentially Tigers to
redo the Marts system so that they can hit harder with rep/quests/certain rare
eqs. But thats really not for me, a player, currently to decide (or you!).
inclined to give every newbie the ability to hit equivalent of auto-loading
vorpals just by spending some exp on a skill. EQ monsters are there for a
reason. They are the end game content and they radically make your char
better. No one would bother to kill eq mobs if just training marts to 100 gave
you better hitting than using weapons.
Obviously there's a balance issue that has to be considered. I think
ultimately, the solution will be a recode of Monks and potentially Tigers to
redo the Marts system so that they can hit harder with rep/quests/certain rare
eqs. But thats really not for me, a player, currently to decide (or you!).
Rating:
2
Votes:
2
Martial arts should not outdamage weapons on a general basis. I think everyone
can agree to that. Like Blayke said, why go kill end game eq monsters to get
those vorpals, torsomakers, empyreans, kraftigars and whatnot if you could
just train MA to 100 and get the same damage output.
BUT, it would definitely be a cool idea for special MA type eq pieces that
increases the damage you make.
Spiked knuckles, arm/leg/foot pieces with spikes/flames/whatever.
Could even consider having specially wielded weapons like staves for monks and
sais, katanas, wakizashis etc for tigers. Weapons that are based on MA instead
of weapon skills.
If an end game eq monster would drop a Bo staff and a pair of spiked knuckles
you could use as a monk martial artist, I don't see any reason why the damage
level could be on par with other weapons.
can agree to that. Like Blayke said, why go kill end game eq monsters to get
those vorpals, torsomakers, empyreans, kraftigars and whatnot if you could
just train MA to 100 and get the same damage output.
BUT, it would definitely be a cool idea for special MA type eq pieces that
increases the damage you make.
Spiked knuckles, arm/leg/foot pieces with spikes/flames/whatever.
Could even consider having specially wielded weapons like staves for monks and
sais, katanas, wakizashis etc for tigers. Weapons that are based on MA instead
of weapon skills.
If an end game eq monster would drop a Bo staff and a pair of spiked knuckles
you could use as a monk martial artist, I don't see any reason why the damage
level could be on par with other weapons.
Rating:
11
Votes:
11
That was obviously supposed to be "I don't see any reason why the damage level
could NOT be on par with other weapons."
could NOT be on par with other weapons."