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BatMUD Forums > Flame > Re: Trainer Tune
Look, I want to clarify one thing about my post. I have no major opinion
about whether or not we should be able to sell trainers, I really could care
less, make them sellable and i'll be fine with it. My point was simply that
the guy who implemented the trainers (Melemkor) clearly did not want you to be
able to sell them which is why in order to accomplish it you had to do some
stupid ass thing like transfer the boat, hire it to that boat then transfer
back.
There was a mechanism in place for transferring crew from one ship to another
and it purposely did not allow trainers because that was never intended to be
possible. If you want to be able to sell your trainers, you should have been
actively lobbying for a change to the code that allowed it to happen normally.
Clearly what was going on was an exploit and was never intended, that is my
entire point. If you did not realize that then you are a moron, plain and
simple.
Val
about whether or not we should be able to sell trainers, I really could care
less, make them sellable and i'll be fine with it. My point was simply that
the guy who implemented the trainers (Melemkor) clearly did not want you to be
able to sell them which is why in order to accomplish it you had to do some
stupid ass thing like transfer the boat, hire it to that boat then transfer
back.
There was a mechanism in place for transferring crew from one ship to another
and it purposely did not allow trainers because that was never intended to be
possible. If you want to be able to sell your trainers, you should have been
actively lobbying for a change to the code that allowed it to happen normally.
Clearly what was going on was an exploit and was never intended, that is my
entire point. If you did not realize that then you are a moron, plain and
simple.
Val
Rating:
-2
Votes:
12
Val wrote:
Look, I want to clarify one thing about my post. I have no major opinion
about whether or not we should be able to sell trainers, I really could care
less, make them sellable and i'll be fine with it. My point was simply that
the guy who implemented the trainers (Melemkor) clearly did not want you to be
able to sell them which is why in order to accomplish it you had to do some
stupid ass thing like transfer the boat, hire it to that boat then transfer
back.
There was a mechanism in place for transferring crew from one ship to another
and it purposely did not allow trainers because that was never intended to be
possible. If you want to be able to sell your trainers, you should have been
actively lobbying for a change to the code that allowed it to happen normally.
Clearly what was going on was an exploit and was never intended, that is my
entire point. If you did not realize that then you are a moron, plain and
simple.
Val
about whether or not we should be able to sell trainers, I really could care
less, make them sellable and i'll be fine with it. My point was simply that
the guy who implemented the trainers (Melemkor) clearly did not want you to be
able to sell them which is why in order to accomplish it you had to do some
stupid ass thing like transfer the boat, hire it to that boat then transfer
back.
There was a mechanism in place for transferring crew from one ship to another
and it purposely did not allow trainers because that was never intended to be
possible. If you want to be able to sell your trainers, you should have been
actively lobbying for a change to the code that allowed it to happen normally.
Clearly what was going on was an exploit and was never intended, that is my
entire point. If you did not realize that then you are a moron, plain and
simple.
Val
the reason trainers weren't able to be transferred because people would just
use them and toss them away since they weren't needed anymore. As the system
was you didn't effectively "sell trainers that you owned". Instead you created
new trainers and did not end up in a silly situation with rank 7 (or more)
crew with no trainers (of course this can be done by training these days, but
most people go for trainers first).
So there was a very good reason trainers weren't transferable, and at least
that reason had nothing to do with "it's something you MUST go through
yourself". And before someone raises the argument you need certain amount of
reputation to gain trainers in the first place, you can still transfer the
ship to someone with enough rep, he collects the trainers (of course this
takes time) and then transfers ship back. But you still can be 0 rep with
trainers. If the change intended to block this, maybe trainers should go for a
vacation if the ships owner is not reputable(?) enough and (maybe) return when
he is.
Clearly if you go around saying something is absolutely clear when using
flawed logic You are a Moron. Melemkor surely has an opinion how things should
work, but speculating around the subject claiming clear this and clear that is
just stupid.
Rating:
4
Votes:
8
I disagree. Anyone who actually knows Melemkor (which Laaban does not) knows
that there are quite often many many unanticipated consequences of his code
(ie "bugs") and also coding decisions (ie "features"). However I believe
Melemkor wanted the trainers to be transferable he would have made them simply
generally available like they were at first and not PERSONAL. The whole idea
that trainers are PERSONAL (ie every person has 1 chance per boot) was that
they are.....gasp...PERSONAL and NOT _GENERAL_ (tough concept I know) and
shouldnt just be traded like a commodity. Melemkor intended the system to
require REAL effort by people checking every single day over the course of
years. Whether this is a good system or stupid, is not the question, but he
certainly did not intend (and I know this from talking to him about the system
and its flaws when it changed) to have rich highbies wait for noobs to check
for them and then buy trainers from them.
To my mind Gotrek's post made the most sense. If the system is flawed and
kinda painful maybe you should attempt to get it changed to soemthing less
flawed and painful. And for those that call others morons, when in fact they
dont know shit, they are in fact....Morons.
that there are quite often many many unanticipated consequences of his code
(ie "bugs") and also coding decisions (ie "features"). However I believe
Melemkor wanted the trainers to be transferable he would have made them simply
generally available like they were at first and not PERSONAL. The whole idea
that trainers are PERSONAL (ie every person has 1 chance per boot) was that
they are.....gasp...PERSONAL and NOT _GENERAL_ (tough concept I know) and
shouldnt just be traded like a commodity. Melemkor intended the system to
require REAL effort by people checking every single day over the course of
years. Whether this is a good system or stupid, is not the question, but he
certainly did not intend (and I know this from talking to him about the system
and its flaws when it changed) to have rich highbies wait for noobs to check
for them and then buy trainers from them.
To my mind Gotrek's post made the most sense. If the system is flawed and
kinda painful maybe you should attempt to get it changed to soemthing less
flawed and painful. And for those that call others morons, when in fact they
dont know shit, they are in fact....Morons.
Rating:
-1
Votes:
9
Blayke wrote:
I disagree. Anyone who actually knows Melemkor (which Laaban does not) knows
that there are quite often many many unanticipated consequences of his code
(ie "bugs") and also coding decisions (ie "features"). However I believe
Melemkor wanted the trainers to be transferable he would have made them simply
generally available like they were at first and not PERSONAL. The whole idea
that trainers are PERSONAL (ie every person has 1 chance per boot) was that
they are.....gasp...PERSONAL and NOT _GENERAL_ (tough concept I know) and
shouldnt just be traded like a commodity. Melemkor intended the system to
require REAL effort by people checking every single day over the course of
years. Whether this is a good system or stupid, is not the question, but he
certainly did not intend (and I know this from talking to him about the system
and its flaws when it changed) to have rich highbies wait for noobs to check
for them and then buy trainers from them.
To my mind Gotrek's post made the most sense. If the system is flawed and
kinda painful maybe you should attempt to get it changed to soemthing less
flawed and painful. And for those that call others morons, when in fact they
dont know shit, they are in fact....Morons.
that there are quite often many many unanticipated consequences of his code
(ie "bugs") and also coding decisions (ie "features"). However I believe
Melemkor wanted the trainers to be transferable he would have made them simply
generally available like they were at first and not PERSONAL. The whole idea
that trainers are PERSONAL (ie every person has 1 chance per boot) was that
they are.....gasp...PERSONAL and NOT _GENERAL_ (tough concept I know) and
shouldnt just be traded like a commodity. Melemkor intended the system to
require REAL effort by people checking every single day over the course of
years. Whether this is a good system or stupid, is not the question, but he
certainly did not intend (and I know this from talking to him about the system
and its flaws when it changed) to have rich highbies wait for noobs to check
for them and then buy trainers from them.
To my mind Gotrek's post made the most sense. If the system is flawed and
kinda painful maybe you should attempt to get it changed to soemthing less
flawed and painful. And for those that call others morons, when in fact they
dont know shit, they are in fact....Morons.
haven't talked to Mel about the subject so yes, I'm at the level of "I
believe" as most who've voiced their opinion about the subject, I believe. I
also believe that The Reason why trainers were made "personal" (at least the
main reason) is that it most likely wasn't supposed to be a race to the
trainers or idle at the hiring places with triggers checking for them. (They
were made to pop at random times, not exactly at boot at some point? Dunno)
It's just idiocy going around claiming something CLEARLY has to mean something
when they really are just Believing. You can, still, sell a ship with trainers
so that the buyer really has to go through no effort obtaining them.
I just want to point out the difference between something that Clearly is
something and people Assuming something without looking at the big picture.
Rating:
4
Votes:
6
Quote:
"I believe" is the right term to use, instead of "Clearly this and that". I
haven't talked to Mel about the subject so yes, I'm at the level of "I
believe" as most who've voiced their opinion about the subject, I believe. I
also believe that The Reason why trainers were made "personal" (at least the
main reason) is that it most likely wasn't supposed to be a race to the
trainers or idle at the hiring places with triggers checking for them. (They
were made to pop at random times, not exactly at boot at some point? Dunno)
It's just idiocy going around claiming something CLEARLY has to mean something
when they really are just Believing. You can, still, sell a ship with trainers
so that the buyer really has to go through no effort obtaining them.
I just want to point out the difference between something that Clearly is
something and people Assuming something without looking at the big picture.
haven't talked to Mel about the subject so yes, I'm at the level of "I
believe" as most who've voiced their opinion about the subject, I believe. I
also believe that The Reason why trainers were made "personal" (at least the
main reason) is that it most likely wasn't supposed to be a race to the
trainers or idle at the hiring places with triggers checking for them. (They
were made to pop at random times, not exactly at boot at some point? Dunno)
It's just idiocy going around claiming something CLEARLY has to mean something
when they really are just Believing. You can, still, sell a ship with trainers
so that the buyer really has to go through no effort obtaining them.
I just want to point out the difference between something that Clearly is
something and people Assuming something without looking at the big picture.
I'm proud to see an elected Council Member getting stuck in simple semantics...
or maybe You are just merrily and happily pointing out the flaws in Morons'
logics, I couldn't say! Me, Moron
Very, very clearly I believe (thisand) that it is the overall content and context and not the connotation of some
subordinate clause that matters when voicing your opinion. As I haven't seen
one word from the people actually coding the stuff in question here I assume
everyone is just pointing out their own opinions. Therefore, I don't give a
blistering fuck (maybe an overstatement? "Flying fuck" better?) whether you
"Believe" in or "Clearly" stand behind your opinions as long as I get your
Point, whether I Agree or Not.
But who Does Care if a citizen thinks it Clearly wasn't Melemkor's idea to do
this and that or if a citizen Believes it wasn't Melemkor's idea to do this and
that? That's right, You Do. That's why I'm going to keep voting for You since
this proves You Really Care! See, I capitalized the first letter of some
important words too to give them a Meaning! From the bottom of my heart of
hearts I hope your Council meeting discussions go as Deep as this! Council, no
Moron
I just want to point out the difference between a douche and a turd. I Assume
many important votes and such events requiring people's opinions only have
yes/no/fuckit -options, so Morons don't get confused by semantics and see the
big picture. I do believe the big picture is really big and the weather is cool
and clear. Thanks!
My opinion on ship trainers is: {|)
Yours truly,
Citizen of the Democratic Lands of BatMUD, Voter, Devoted Supporter of the
Council Party and Single Mother,
Mingray the bony Skeleton from Lucentium
P.S: I still have the Hitler & Nazis card, Retard card (better than Moron),
Newbie card, FU card and Well folks card left! I think I'll just play the "I'm
retired and don't give a fuck" maneuver (Well folks & FU combo) if someone
disagrees with me. I still wanted to spit out my thoughts because I'm a Voter!
Together, let's change things for our children to have a better tomorrow! Power
to the People! Fuck the System! Tukiainen lauteille! Pillua!
Rating:
5
Votes:
7
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