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BatMUD Forums > Bs > Re: kruik
It would take over 14 years at 1m xp per day, to get the 5g xp necessary to
hit level 115. Each level of ascendancy gives +6hp, +25trainingpoints+1per
ascendancy level, +0.5 sockets in a pocket, and +2 more regen to the sphere.
It doesn't seem like it is worth pursing for the power returned, when eq in
the game can add 50% more power to a given player. All that matters is eq.
Under the name 'balance', formulas are capped, and damage is capped, or made
to have diminishing returns.. why? why not rewards those who decide to stick
time into the game?
Most of the new content is high-end content (severus?). Would it really hurt
so badly to remove the skills over 100 are divided by 4, or stop the
diminishing returns of hps from con, or stopping spmax growth from int/wis
beyond 400? i mean if you can get more than 400wis.. why not have more sp?
would it REALLY unbalance the game? how many people can actually get that
anyway?
Anyhoo.. i dont think power should be coming 90% from eq, and 10% from xp..
even certain high level players i know have said they could do the same as
they are now, with a total of 500m xp instead of over a gig...
I'd ask for xp to matter more, but there are sooo many things i'd rather have
somebody code.. (new priests? over haul for monks/templars/druids/monks, rep
systems for the guilds without..
Anyway, i'll go take my bitterness somewhere else till it wears off
E.
hit level 115. Each level of ascendancy gives +6hp, +25trainingpoints+1per
ascendancy level, +0.5 sockets in a pocket, and +2 more regen to the sphere.
It doesn't seem like it is worth pursing for the power returned, when eq in
the game can add 50% more power to a given player. All that matters is eq.
Under the name 'balance', formulas are capped, and damage is capped, or made
to have diminishing returns.. why? why not rewards those who decide to stick
time into the game?
Most of the new content is high-end content (severus?). Would it really hurt
so badly to remove the skills over 100 are divided by 4, or stop the
diminishing returns of hps from con, or stopping spmax growth from int/wis
beyond 400? i mean if you can get more than 400wis.. why not have more sp?
would it REALLY unbalance the game? how many people can actually get that
anyway?
Anyhoo.. i dont think power should be coming 90% from eq, and 10% from xp..
even certain high level players i know have said they could do the same as
they are now, with a total of 500m xp instead of over a gig...
I'd ask for xp to matter more, but there are sooo many things i'd rather have
somebody code.. (new priests? over haul for monks/templars/druids/monks, rep
systems for the guilds without..
Anyway, i'll go take my bitterness somewhere else till it wears off
E.
Rating:
-3
Votes:
13
As a counter-point, the power creep in the game is rather ridiculous. Feeling
of progression is great and all, but when it takes a year or more of regular
playing to be able to participate in the more interesting content (and I'm not
even talking about the crazy stuff like Origo or Tiamat or what have you), and
even then you are effectively limited to certain reincs (tdruid mainly) for
quite a while, there is a problem.
As such, I think that your proposed removal of xp-based softcaps would be a
bad direction to take. It'd lead to even more power creep, and even poorer
player retention than we have now.
This is not really about "balance", mind you - it's about not making the good
stuff an exclusive domain of people with 10 years of playing, as any newer
player is effectively competing with those for party slots.
Most of new content being high-end content is true, and to me at least it
seems like a rather poor usage of development time - for Severus specifically,
Gorgar did awesome work on it, but, I understand there was a grand total of
one successful completion of that area to date? There is Shinarae fighting the
good fight for the more accessible stuff, but we definitely need more content
that can be done with a smaller party, or solo.
Incidentally, regarding your last comment, I'd argue that rep systems are as
much to blame for the power creep as eq is, so I'd be careful about going too
crazy with those.
Anyway, just my random babbling.
of progression is great and all, but when it takes a year or more of regular
playing to be able to participate in the more interesting content (and I'm not
even talking about the crazy stuff like Origo or Tiamat or what have you), and
even then you are effectively limited to certain reincs (tdruid mainly) for
quite a while, there is a problem.
As such, I think that your proposed removal of xp-based softcaps would be a
bad direction to take. It'd lead to even more power creep, and even poorer
player retention than we have now.
This is not really about "balance", mind you - it's about not making the good
stuff an exclusive domain of people with 10 years of playing, as any newer
player is effectively competing with those for party slots.
Most of new content being high-end content is true, and to me at least it
seems like a rather poor usage of development time - for Severus specifically,
Gorgar did awesome work on it, but, I understand there was a grand total of
one successful completion of that area to date? There is Shinarae fighting the
good fight for the more accessible stuff, but we definitely need more content
that can be done with a smaller party, or solo.
Incidentally, regarding your last comment, I'd argue that rep systems are as
much to blame for the power creep as eq is, so I'd be careful about going too
crazy with those.
Anyway, just my random babbling.
Rating:
6
Votes:
8
Meh.
What he's asking in essence... is give me something to play for.. as xp for
him at 1.3g more than the closest player is pissing into the wind. It
does absolutely nothing.
Reminds me of hitting the level cap in FALLOUT 3 and realizing that
killing mobs was pointless.. it completely killed my interest
in playing... and by the time they recognized the problem and fixed it?
I'd moved on to something else.
He's not asking for more high-end content so much as a reason to keep
playing.. be it feasible long term grind or simply a new guild. Hell,
it's been 3 yrs since the last guild added and that was essentially a
re-code of a pre-existing 5 level support one.
with 17 yrs of in game experience.. i'd say imm him and let him address
the problems.
What he's asking in essence... is give me something to play for.. as xp for
him at 1.3g more than the closest player is pissing into the wind. It
does absolutely nothing.
Reminds me of hitting the level cap in FALLOUT 3 and realizing that
killing mobs was pointless.. it completely killed my interest
in playing... and by the time they recognized the problem and fixed it?
I'd moved on to something else.
He's not asking for more high-end content so much as a reason to keep
playing.. be it feasible long term grind or simply a new guild. Hell,
it's been 3 yrs since the last guild added and that was essentially a
re-code of a pre-existing 5 level support one.
with 17 yrs of in game experience.. i'd say imm him and let him address
the problems.
Rating:
5
Votes:
5
Bring back Shadowkeep Sewers and the shops that it used to have. Most of that
eq have a level limit anyway and was pretty powerful. Plus it was fun to make.
eq have a level limit anyway and was pretty powerful. Plus it was fun to make.
Rating:
2
Votes:
2
Tixe wrote:
Bring back Shadowkeep Sewers and the shops that it used to have. Most of that
eq have a level limit anyway and was pretty powerful. Plus it was fun to make.
eq have a level limit anyway and was pretty powerful. Plus it was fun to make.
That post read like something from a politician. Nepos' post focused on the
greater population of the mud, the midbies, which is obvious from the upvotes.
Ewige was speaking for the highbies. Two different topics.
Nepos' focus on more midbie content would be great. No one will argue that.
There is a good bit of low/midbie stuff out there. How often is it lead? Those
leading that content find themselves moving up out of the midbie realm into
the harder content, which leaves those 'followers' at a loss. In this game, if
you don't lead, you are going to have a hard time. (Or have a friend that
leads.) That is a truth! I see this as more of the problem than 'I have all
the low/midbie eq for dex/int/wis/str/con/spr sets at my level!' Mithrandir
alone has maxspr bracelets, 10 dex/dodge/parry/spr/qc helds. How often is that
mid level mob run?
Ewige is trying to address player retention also! The guys that make it to the
top, aka highbies, probably are human and follow the 'time = reward' theory.
Why exp anymore when the only thing left to spend it on is an inf level that
requires 1g+ xp for basically peanuts worth of power? Completed the
Holz_quest. Completed area_quests, level_quests, collected wish eq, and wiz
auction eq. What new content drives them? Guilds with rep! Hate it as you may,
it drives people to grind and keep coming back. But when the grind is such as
inf lvls or Aelena rep, there is no point. And just a thought, if you don't
listen to your 'life-time', aka devoted, players' needs. Those problems they
try to address will lead them to leaving the game. So, the community loses all
that knowledge and another player.
greater population of the mud, the midbies, which is obvious from the upvotes.
Ewige was speaking for the highbies. Two different topics.
Nepos' focus on more midbie content would be great. No one will argue that.
There is a good bit of low/midbie stuff out there. How often is it lead? Those
leading that content find themselves moving up out of the midbie realm into
the harder content, which leaves those 'followers' at a loss. In this game, if
you don't lead, you are going to have a hard time. (Or have a friend that
leads.) That is a truth! I see this as more of the problem than 'I have all
the low/midbie eq for dex/int/wis/str/con/spr sets at my level!' Mithrandir
alone has maxspr bracelets, 10 dex/dodge/parry/spr/qc helds. How often is that
mid level mob run?
Ewige is trying to address player retention also! The guys that make it to the
top, aka highbies, probably are human and follow the 'time = reward' theory.
Why exp anymore when the only thing left to spend it on is an inf level that
requires 1g+ xp for basically peanuts worth of power? Completed the
Holz_quest. Completed area_quests, level_quests, collected wish eq, and wiz
auction eq. What new content drives them? Guilds with rep! Hate it as you may,
it drives people to grind and keep coming back. But when the grind is such as
inf lvls or Aelena rep, there is no point. And just a thought, if you don't
listen to your 'life-time', aka devoted, players' needs. Those problems they
try to address will lead them to leaving the game. So, the community loses all
that knowledge and another player.
Rating:
-2
Votes:
5
All valid points, but it is not a black-and-white issue with an easy solution.
From a game design perspective, we can cater to the most hardcore players.
But either the new content for highbies is largely cosmetic, or it makes
the gap between top-end highbies and midbies/lowbies even more extreme.
The other way of doing it (like how some MMOs do it) is via massive inflation.
E.g. you only add things to the top of the powercurve (e.g. every new area
would be aimed to highbies), but build catch-up mechanics for players who
have fallen behind or who are just starting. The downside of this approach
is that it massively devalues older content.
There needs to be some balance between "Adding more power to highend
players" and "Making the game approachable for less hardcore players".
Normally that balance is achieved by making the effort/power formula
non-linear, but it comes with the downside that beyond a certain
point some really extreme cases might feel the effort required becomes
too big.
Anyway, good ideas how to solve it is always welcome.
++ Gore
From a game design perspective, we can cater to the most hardcore players.
But either the new content for highbies is largely cosmetic, or it makes
the gap between top-end highbies and midbies/lowbies even more extreme.
The other way of doing it (like how some MMOs do it) is via massive inflation.
E.g. you only add things to the top of the powercurve (e.g. every new area
would be aimed to highbies), but build catch-up mechanics for players who
have fallen behind or who are just starting. The downside of this approach
is that it massively devalues older content.
There needs to be some balance between "Adding more power to highend
players" and "Making the game approachable for less hardcore players".
Normally that balance is achieved by making the effort/power formula
non-linear, but it comes with the downside that beyond a certain
point some really extreme cases might feel the effort required becomes
too big.
Anyway, good ideas how to solve it is always welcome.
++ Gore
Rating:
4
Votes:
4
Gore
A r c h w i z a r d
16y, 255d, 7h, 17m, 34s old
Level:
600 [Wizard]
Motivation doesn't have to mean power..
I know from a player's perspective, it's easy to throw around suggestions
without appreciating how much time and testing goes into coding new content.
But most high-end players have played every possible combination of guilds
imaginable.
Ewige did say this after all.
but there are sooo many things i'd rather have
somebody code.. (new priests? over haul for monks/templars/druids/monks, rep
systems for the guilds without
Or are guilds the machine that keeps plodding along and no one really wants
to touch them because they're so easily thrown out of balance? Shinarae
managed to throw together a ton of quests-tasks types.. would it be that
hard to code similar challenges based in one particular guild ? I know for
people to complete these tasks.. you're back to motivation and that means
they have to get some reward.
Hell, I generally dislike partying and Shins tasks have brought me to areas
i had no interest in and had me helping others and partying more than I
have in a long time.. anyway. Let's not give Shin a big head.
Highbies jump around from guild to guild so often, I don't think they offer
any surprises anymore. Maybe that's something to work on?
I know from a player's perspective, it's easy to throw around suggestions
without appreciating how much time and testing goes into coding new content.
But most high-end players have played every possible combination of guilds
imaginable.
Ewige did say this after all.
but there are sooo many things i'd rather have
somebody code.. (new priests? over haul for monks/templars/druids/monks, rep
systems for the guilds without
Or are guilds the machine that keeps plodding along and no one really wants
to touch them because they're so easily thrown out of balance? Shinarae
managed to throw together a ton of quests-tasks types.. would it be that
hard to code similar challenges based in one particular guild ? I know for
people to complete these tasks.. you're back to motivation and that means
they have to get some reward.
Hell, I generally dislike partying and Shins tasks have brought me to areas
i had no interest in and had me helping others and partying more than I
have in a long time.. anyway. Let's not give Shin a big head.
Highbies jump around from guild to guild so often, I don't think they offer
any surprises anymore. Maybe that's something to work on?
I didnt want to say what to do to help with this because im not a highbie,
but after reading a few posts i see that there is a big rep effect going on
in the fun of exping and i used to like that in the old locs so not a highbie
but put a lot of time into that guild to see it unfortunatly gone. my idea
to solve all this and my confusion with the time lost from old locs is simple
dont make rep only for one guild on certain conditions. if two people work
together
as examples of like representatives of two different guilds like merchants and
rangers for example its the same thing if the guilds themselves are making a
team
and thus there wouldnt need to be new code for guilds to let a merchant train
bladed fury but there would need to be a code to let 2 people form a team that
the merchant could pay the ranger for his knowledge, and then to leave a extra
slot in
this team for a reputation that they could each achieve when they get two a
certain
point in the guilds.
but after reading a few posts i see that there is a big rep effect going on
in the fun of exping and i used to like that in the old locs so not a highbie
but put a lot of time into that guild to see it unfortunatly gone. my idea
to solve all this and my confusion with the time lost from old locs is simple
dont make rep only for one guild on certain conditions. if two people work
together
as examples of like representatives of two different guilds like merchants and
rangers for example its the same thing if the guilds themselves are making a
team
and thus there wouldnt need to be new code for guilds to let a merchant train
bladed fury but there would need to be a code to let 2 people form a team that
the merchant could pay the ranger for his knowledge, and then to leave a extra
slot in
this team for a reputation that they could each achieve when they get two a
certain
point in the guilds.
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