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BatMUD Forums > Ideas-wanted > Re: items
Tuning the monsies would be tricky... but, if you had mobs with lowbie EQ that
were more difficult if higher level players were fighting them, that would
reduce the incentive for highbies to kill them.
The higher the player, the more difficult it is to kill the same monsie for
the same piece of lowbie eq.
were more difficult if higher level players were fighting them, that would
reduce the incentive for highbies to kill them.
The higher the player, the more difficult it is to kill the same monsie for
the same piece of lowbie eq.
Rating:
3
Votes:
7
Doot wrote:
Tuning the monsies would be tricky... but, if you had mobs with lowbie EQ that
were more difficult if higher level players were fighting them, that would
reduce the incentive for highbies to kill them.
The higher the player, the more difficult it is to kill the same monsie for
the same piece of lowbie eq.
were more difficult if higher level players were fighting them, that would
reduce the incentive for highbies to kill them.
The higher the player, the more difficult it is to kill the same monsie for
the same piece of lowbie eq.
brings fear and misunderstanding because mortals, as a general rule, have poor
research habits. ("What? It cast immolate storm and multifrog at that level
100 party? I'm only level 50, no way can I handle that!")
See, already some of you are trying to figure out which monsters I'm talking
about.
It's a good theory, it just didn't pan out in practice.
Shinarae Lluminus
Rating:
2
Votes:
6
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 221d, 16h, 1m, 1s old
Level:
200 [Wizard]
Instead of increasing the power of the monster cause there a higher lvl player
in the party extend his personal prot on that mob for longer duration. Either
based on lvls or exp worth. Another solution is the monster would contiune to
toss them from the room and scream at the higher lvl players.
In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theyre not.
in the party extend his personal prot on that mob for longer duration. Either
based on lvls or exp worth. Another solution is the monster would contiune to
toss them from the room and scream at the higher lvl players.
In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theyre not.
Rating:
-9
Votes:
11
Shinarae wrote:
Doot wrote:
Tuning the monsies would be tricky... but, if you had mobs with lowbie EQ that
were more difficult if higher level players were fighting them, that would
reduce the incentive for highbies to kill them.
The higher the player, the more difficult it is to kill the same monsie for
the same piece of lowbie eq.
were more difficult if higher level players were fighting them, that would
reduce the incentive for highbies to kill them.
The higher the player, the more difficult it is to kill the same monsie for
the same piece of lowbie eq.
brings fear and misunderstanding because mortals, as a general rule, have poor
research habits. ("What? It cast immolate storm and multifrog at that level
100 party? I'm only level 50, no way can I handle that!")
See, already some of you are trying to figure out which monsters I'm talking
about.
It's a good theory, it just didn't pan out in practice.
Shinarae Lluminus
other mob in the game? maybe if a large number of lowbie eq mobs had that
same sort of protection it would be more popular, but you can't possibly think
that people are going to figure out one mob works completely different than
every other mob in the game in any sort of fast timeframe
as a side note, maybe just point out that XXXXX the great god jesus-killer mob
now has some anti-highbie protection, then well...people would know
fil
Rating:
10
Votes:
13
I'll elaborate what "poor research habits" means.
Pooer research is when you find information on a monster, item, quest, or
skill online and accept the results you see as 100% accurate without
bothiering to test them yourself.
Poor research habits is when you deliberately get dragged for E% through rooms
without bothering to stop and look at them, rather than taking the time tin
investigate yourself. (This leads to the deadly disease I-can't-lead syndrome)
Poor research habits is when you only go after challenges you know you will
successfully defeat, either because you're far stronger than the challenge or
because someone else does all the thinking, rather than testing the limits of
your character and gaming ability. No, I am not encouraging newbies to attack
Tiamat, but it would be nice to see a 6man of 30's in action against Bofo "I
have a +2 dex ring" McStomper, rather than a highbie 2manning it without
breaking a sweat.
I am aware that power, money, and time are valuable assets here that will get
your character far. But information is even more valuable, and worth the time
spent, rate lowering, and occasional death it causes. Some of the most
powerful characters in the game are the ones who took the time to really get
to know the areas they spend much of their time in -- that's why they do so
well in them. I would say roughly one in five bug reports I get is something
like this:
Mortal tells you 'this item is supposed to give me +10 strength when I say
shivoza and its not working it must be a bug its your fault I hate you'
You tell Mortal 'did you ID the item?'
Mortal tells you '...no'
So go do those exp runs, kill those cash monsters,
and follow those quest walkthroughs so you can get that power you'll need. But
every once in a while, stop to search the flowers. Try that monster you've
always thought was one step above you. Try that area quest you friends don't
know how to do either. Open that hatch with 4 8 15 16 23 42 on the side. You
might learn something, even if you fail. It'll be interesting and hopefully
even fun. And who knows -- you might even hit the jackpot.
Shinarae Lluminus
Pooer research is when you find information on a monster, item, quest, or
skill online and accept the results you see as 100% accurate without
bothiering to test them yourself.
Poor research habits is when you deliberately get dragged for E% through rooms
without bothering to stop and look at them, rather than taking the time tin
investigate yourself. (This leads to the deadly disease I-can't-lead syndrome)
Poor research habits is when you only go after challenges you know you will
successfully defeat, either because you're far stronger than the challenge or
because someone else does all the thinking, rather than testing the limits of
your character and gaming ability. No, I am not encouraging newbies to attack
Tiamat, but it would be nice to see a 6man of 30's in action against Bofo "I
have a +2 dex ring" McStomper, rather than a highbie 2manning it without
breaking a sweat.
I am aware that power, money, and time are valuable assets here that will get
your character far. But information is even more valuable, and worth the time
spent, rate lowering, and occasional death it causes. Some of the most
powerful characters in the game are the ones who took the time to really get
to know the areas they spend much of their time in -- that's why they do so
well in them. I would say roughly one in five bug reports I get is something
like this:
Mortal tells you 'this item is supposed to give me +10 strength when I say
shivoza and its not working it must be a bug its your fault I hate you'
You tell Mortal 'did you ID the item?'
Mortal tells you '...no'
So go do those exp runs, kill those cash monsters,
and follow those quest walkthroughs so you can get that power you'll need. But
every once in a while, stop to search the flowers. Try that monster you've
always thought was one step above you. Try that area quest you friends don't
know how to do either. Open that hatch with 4 8 15 16 23 42 on the side. You
might learn something, even if you fail. It'll be interesting and hopefully
even fun. And who knows -- you might even hit the jackpot.
Shinarae Lluminus
Rating:
5
Votes:
7
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 221d, 22h, 1m, 11s old
Level:
200 [Wizard]
ok, I was almost positive we were talking about anti-highbie prots, and you
somehow got on the topic of newbies using quest walkthrus. I\'m gonna try to
sway back on topic here...
ok, me == newbie tank, me want wis amulet. Now I know the mob who drops it, I
know the area, I know all about the wandering guards and blasters and such so
I feel like making me a wis amulet. So I use one of those handy dandy ss
channels and recruit/badger friends into joining me. Now assuming this mob
who drops my wis amulet has this anti-highbie protection on it, one of two
things is going to happen.
A. I\'m going to get a party and its going to have some sort of much stronger
tank or healer in it. I\'m still a newbie but my friends aren\'t reinc
addicts, thus they are much stronger then me. So we go to mob, we attack mob,
and anti-lvl 50+ protection (or whatever it is) kicks in and we get gangraped.
Now since I \'ve never heard of this protection before on ANY MONSTER EVER, it
is insane to think I\'m going to jump to the conclusion (without a mat) that
\"Oh! Let\'s kick all the level XX plus members and try again, because even
though I\'ve never heard of that kind of prot and it wasn\'t here yesterday,
that might be the solution!\"
B. While asking for party some kind soul says \"Hey, we tried that before on a
cash run and it was crazy turbo so you might want to wait til tomorrow.\" Now
this is what you were kind of talking about before, but frankly as a wiz you
don\'t have quite the trouble getting parties that I do as a level 45 tank.
And if I do get members, well, I want to run areas that I know won\'t get them
chain killed for one lousy piece of eq, that way when I want an exp party they
will come with me again, or gimme a spot if they are leading. So with a
warning from a reliable source, I\'m definitely going to avoid the mob, since
I have no reason from past experience to think otherwise.
so with these anti-highbie prots (which i think could be a good thing!!) you
can\'t just throw them on a few mobs, wait a week (or even a month) and then
say no one figured them out, so obviously the players are too dumb/lay to use
this kind of prot. Make an inform, or post an update -- say hey asshats
certain lowbie/newbie eq mobs are now only for newbies to kill, older players
attempting them will be very angry or some such vague thing, but also 6 lvl
30\'s trying to kill blur would probably not go so well so don\'t get your
hopes up that the next day newbie\'s will have done stacks of fun eq mobs
somehow got on the topic of newbies using quest walkthrus. I\'m gonna try to
sway back on topic here...
ok, me == newbie tank, me want wis amulet. Now I know the mob who drops it, I
know the area, I know all about the wandering guards and blasters and such so
I feel like making me a wis amulet. So I use one of those handy dandy ss
channels and recruit/badger friends into joining me. Now assuming this mob
who drops my wis amulet has this anti-highbie protection on it, one of two
things is going to happen.
A. I\'m going to get a party and its going to have some sort of much stronger
tank or healer in it. I\'m still a newbie but my friends aren\'t reinc
addicts, thus they are much stronger then me. So we go to mob, we attack mob,
and anti-lvl 50+ protection (or whatever it is) kicks in and we get gangraped.
Now since I \'ve never heard of this protection before on ANY MONSTER EVER, it
is insane to think I\'m going to jump to the conclusion (without a mat) that
\"Oh! Let\'s kick all the level XX plus members and try again, because even
though I\'ve never heard of that kind of prot and it wasn\'t here yesterday,
that might be the solution!\"
B. While asking for party some kind soul says \"Hey, we tried that before on a
cash run and it was crazy turbo so you might want to wait til tomorrow.\" Now
this is what you were kind of talking about before, but frankly as a wiz you
don\'t have quite the trouble getting parties that I do as a level 45 tank.
And if I do get members, well, I want to run areas that I know won\'t get them
chain killed for one lousy piece of eq, that way when I want an exp party they
will come with me again, or gimme a spot if they are leading. So with a
warning from a reliable source, I\'m definitely going to avoid the mob, since
I have no reason from past experience to think otherwise.
so with these anti-highbie prots (which i think could be a good thing!!) you
can\'t just throw them on a few mobs, wait a week (or even a month) and then
say no one figured them out, so obviously the players are too dumb/lay to use
this kind of prot. Make an inform, or post an update -- say hey asshats
certain lowbie/newbie eq mobs are now only for newbies to kill, older players
attempting them will be very angry or some such vague thing, but also 6 lvl
30\'s trying to kill blur would probably not go so well so don\'t get your
hopes up that the next day newbie\'s will have done stacks of fun eq mobs
Rating:
7
Votes:
10
This post had some valid points, but also some logical flaws.
-- Perhaps you are lower level than your friends, but it is not possible for
everyone to be in that position. There must be players out there who are
higher level than their friends. Most will be about the same, or will have
some higher and some lower. This is especially true in the case of
newbies/lowbies who found the game on their own, and as such, aren't "owned"
by a highbie protector.
-- similarly, not every player is going to get the "hey the monster's turbo"
warnings. Some players don't advertise who they're going after. Some don't
have a lot of friends. Perhaps the group that tried the monster today knows
it's turbo and just doesn't want to warn anyone. If I was organizing a party
to go after a monster with a piece of eq I wanted, and a random highbie said
"hey don't try that monster, it'll kill you" I might not take statement at
face value. I might make a backup plan, test the monster in question to see if
the highbie was telling the truth, and then decide. We do have some helpful
players here, but we also have a lot of evil bastards.
-- some of the "anti-highbie prots" have been in the game for more than weeks
or months. Some have been in the game for years. Some have been in the game
before I wizzed. None of them ever posted, and I think most (if not all)
players don't know which monsters they are yet. To say that, with the dozens
of mid-level eq monsters we have, in the last, say, five years, for the
literally thousands of players we've had in this time to _never_ bother
checking these monsters is borderline impossible. Someone's done at least a
couple and is hoarding the info. They are profiting from this info. Now,
should I penalize this smart player by making the info open to everyone? Or
should I let this player or these players continue to profit from their hard
work and creative efforts?
-- and finally, while I know some monsters are (in general terms) easier than
others, as a general rule, if the monster doesn't kill your party at least a
few times, it's probably too weak, and you can do better. I'm not saying you
need a pwipe every 60 seconds, but an eq party should expect to die a few
times for eq that's worth it. (And they should expect a party leader who's
smart enough to keep that number of deaths down, too, that's where further
research comes into play).
Shinarae Lluminus
-- Perhaps you are lower level than your friends, but it is not possible for
everyone to be in that position. There must be players out there who are
higher level than their friends. Most will be about the same, or will have
some higher and some lower. This is especially true in the case of
newbies/lowbies who found the game on their own, and as such, aren't "owned"
by a highbie protector.
-- similarly, not every player is going to get the "hey the monster's turbo"
warnings. Some players don't advertise who they're going after. Some don't
have a lot of friends. Perhaps the group that tried the monster today knows
it's turbo and just doesn't want to warn anyone. If I was organizing a party
to go after a monster with a piece of eq I wanted, and a random highbie said
"hey don't try that monster, it'll kill you" I might not take statement at
face value. I might make a backup plan, test the monster in question to see if
the highbie was telling the truth, and then decide. We do have some helpful
players here, but we also have a lot of evil bastards.
-- some of the "anti-highbie prots" have been in the game for more than weeks
or months. Some have been in the game for years. Some have been in the game
before I wizzed. None of them ever posted, and I think most (if not all)
players don't know which monsters they are yet. To say that, with the dozens
of mid-level eq monsters we have, in the last, say, five years, for the
literally thousands of players we've had in this time to _never_ bother
checking these monsters is borderline impossible. Someone's done at least a
couple and is hoarding the info. They are profiting from this info. Now,
should I penalize this smart player by making the info open to everyone? Or
should I let this player or these players continue to profit from their hard
work and creative efforts?
-- and finally, while I know some monsters are (in general terms) easier than
others, as a general rule, if the monster doesn't kill your party at least a
few times, it's probably too weak, and you can do better. I'm not saying you
need a pwipe every 60 seconds, but an eq party should expect to die a few
times for eq that's worth it. (And they should expect a party leader who's
smart enough to keep that number of deaths down, too, that's where further
research comes into play).
Shinarae Lluminus
Rating:
-7
Votes:
11
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 222d, 12h, 51m, 18s old
Level:
200 [Wizard] Quote:
This post had some valid points, but also some logical flaws.
-- Perhaps you are lower level than your friends, but it is not possible for
everyone to be in that position. There must be players out there who are
higher level than their friends. Most will be about the same, or will have
some higher and some lower. This is especially true in the case of
newbies/lowbies who found the game on their own, and as such, aren\'t \"owned\" by a highbie protector.
-- Perhaps you are lower level than your friends, but it is not possible for
everyone to be in that position. There must be players out there who are
higher level than their friends. Most will be about the same, or will have
some higher and some lower. This is especially true in the case of
newbies/lowbies who found the game on their own, and as such, aren\'t \"owned\" by a highbie protector.
quests and tries to figure things out for themselves is lower level than their
friends. Why? Because this game just does not reward that behavior, at least at
the lowbie/midbie level. It rewards follow-the-leader mindless exp/cash runs.
At _best_ a lowbie explorer could hope for would be to spend weeks worth of
effort of explore + research + begging for a party of non-idiots (fat chance)
to end up with that +2 dex ring they could have gotten off of sales for 15k
(only with name, so its +3 roughly 10% of the time). Or to find out that that
ring is damogran-bait chaff on a 1m bastard with some other much better eq and
a highbie-rapeprot to boot so good luck getting it ever, let alone through your
own efforts.
I\'m not saying that every monster or every eq is this way, but a large enough
percentage of it is that you can hardly fault the newbie who gives up on his
dream of being an explorer and gets his now-highbie friends to drag him around
instead.
Rating:
13
Votes:
18
Quote:
If I was organizing a party
to go after a monster with a piece of eq I wanted, and a random highbie said
\"hey don\'t try that monster, it\'ll kill you\" I might not take statement at
face value. I might make a backup plan, test the monster in question to see if
the highbie was telling the truth, and then decide. We do have some helpful
players here, but we also have a lot of evil bastards.
to go after a monster with a piece of eq I wanted, and a random highbie said
\"hey don\'t try that monster, it\'ll kill you\" I might not take statement at
face value. I might make a backup plan, test the monster in question to see if
the highbie was telling the truth, and then decide. We do have some helpful
players here, but we also have a lot of evil bastards.
begging to party with me
Quote:
-- some of the \"anti-highbie prots\" have been in the game for more than weeks
or months. Some have been in the game for years. Some have been in the game
before I wizzed. None of them ever posted, and I think most (if not all)
players don\'t know which monsters they are yet. To say that, with the dozens
of mid-level eq monsters we have, in the last, say, five years, for the
literally thousands of players we\'ve had in this time to _never_ bother
checking these monsters is borderline impossible. Someone\'s done at least a
couple and is hoarding the info. They are profiting from this info.
or months. Some have been in the game for years. Some have been in the game
before I wizzed. None of them ever posted, and I think most (if not all)
players don\'t know which monsters they are yet. To say that, with the dozens
of mid-level eq monsters we have, in the last, say, five years, for the
literally thousands of players we\'ve had in this time to _never_ bother
checking these monsters is borderline impossible. Someone\'s done at least a
couple and is hoarding the info. They are profiting from this info.
that in fact most players dont get a nice little group of level 45 members to
go tackle those nasty mobs?
please refer to Marvin\'s post for why that is, he speaks gospel truth in my
opinion.
Rating:
3
Votes:
5
Quote:
doesn't that prove that my scenarios are much much more common than you
No, I think that the circumstances you describe are very common. I just don't
empathize with, and don't particularly feel like rewarding, players who never
try anything new for themselves, regardless of their level, friends, or access
to information.
Shinarae Lluminus
Rating:
-4
Votes:
10
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 222d, 19h, 20m, 54s old
Level:
200 [Wizard] © 1990-2024 Balanced Alternative Techniques ry. All rights reserved. BatMUD™ is a registered trademark of Balanced Alternative Techniques ry.
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