hi, i am a new player to the BatMUD and so far i have seen a lot of cool
things from this game but the thing that i feel is missing is having the
backstab removed from the game due to other player's abuse. now i do
understand why it was done but you shouldnt get rid of an ability or a guild
(rogues)that has been apart of the rpg community sinse the first inception of
dungeons and dragons. what i propose is that allow the backstab return (and
not the other powers that i have seen the thieves guild have like
"assassinate" and such) and even make it to where the skill only affects non
players or even make it to where there's a secretive npc that will teach the
ability for alot of money. even without rogues and their abilities players
can still make "combat pk monsters" and you cant blame rogues because of them.
i think by "lowering" or "balancing the theives' abilites in some way will
make the batmud more enjoyable for those that enjoy playing rogue characters
and you will be even further beyond other various rpg games that do away with
rogue/assassins because they cannot handle them and i know that the creators
and this game can do more than handle them. Vorn.
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Vorn again, after talking to some ppls on the game about why the thieves guild
was taken out pls allow me to make a simple suguestion of a new and more
balanced thieves guild. any comments are welcome. first of all make it
accessable to everybody because there are various types of rogues,(Conan was a
barbarian/rogue) and ones that did scams and white collar crimes as well as
the normal "rogue" activities. second make it only about 10 or 20 lvls. third,
use these skills: Attack, Backstab, cast information, consider, defense sense,
dodge, enhance criticals, hiding, hiking, negate offhand penality, pick
locks,sleight (not true steal or any of that crap),skulking, sneak,stab, stun,
swim, switch weapon, track, tumbling attack.Spells: Darkness, Haste, Inform,
Infravision, Invisibility, Poison, Quicksilver, Water walking. i know some are
asking why remake or put them back in when we have the tigers? simple, because
not everyone wants to be a martial arts "rogue" for rp sake. any other skills
or spells the admin would like to add (maybe one or two tradeskills for that
white collar favor). i humbly ask that this be taken into consideration and i
think that people would (maybe not all, lol) would like to see the theives and
there valuable skills make a decent comeback. **
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Vorn is back. When a first time player of the BatMUD comes in and says "do
you have Rogues/thieves/assassins in this game? What that person generally
means or is looking for (at least 90% of them) is a class/guild/organization
that can do the following: see a creature/npc/pc, hide in the shadows,
activate an attack generally called or labeled "backstab or sneak attack", and
the attack goes off hitting the mob with extra damage or even critical damage
and not just a class/guild/organization that has the RP "background" of a
rogue. With that in mind, when i asked this question i had gotten replies that
the "Tiger" or even followers of the scorpion are the "rogues" of this game.
But my underlining question really is can they perform backstab/ambush
function that I just described? I don?t believe so (keyword) and that in of
itself is really sad. Are they wrong to say that the tigers, scorpions or even
the spider guilds are thieves/rogues? By definition, absolutely not!! They
certainly are rogue/assassin type "classes" based on their many stealth based
spells and abilities and to some degree Breaking and Entering. Why do i say
those guilds don?t have that ability? Is it because i have seen it in chat
that people say "Dim Mak sucks!!!? It certainly does NOT suck (look at
http://batwiki.wx.fi/wiki/Dim_mak for more information on what other skills
affects Dim Mak) and by no means a weak attack. Looking at the Bat wiki that
I described previously and looking at those guilds, they do not have those
backstabbing type skills (from hiding/sneak/Invisibility attack w/backstab).
Are there any advantages to attack from sneak, hiding, invisibility etc?
Sadly, no. What?s your point, Vorn? My point is that it is deceptive (and i
don?t think that the ppls that say that are trying to be) to answer "Yes, the
tigers are the rogues of the game? when someone is looking for that
backstabber/ambusher class. Therefore, the "backstabber" rogue is "missing"
and thus makes such a wonderful game incomplete. By leaving this out, you ar
e removing one of the most basic, deadly, and optional tactics that any party
should have the option of having. Is the backstab out of balance? No!! What
is the difference between a backstabber using backstab and the wizard using
their most damaging spell? In essence nothing other than the way it?s done and
style and in some cases it could be said that "mages" are unfair because of
their highly damaging spells and even some avoidance spells. But that's what
makes them mages/wizards but nobody deleted those guilds for that, so why
should the thief be penalized to such degree? Again, removing some of their
"exploitation" skills like true steal is a must because that's seriously
unfair to the person that camped for that highly sought item for hours and
weeks on end, but to take thieves or their skills out of the game is highly
unfair for players that wish to play such characters. "We already have a guild
that can do backstab" is sadly incorrect and deceptive because they cannot do
so and if someone would like to prove me wrong, then please send me a message
and show me why I am wrong (i am easy going, friendly and approachable so we
can talk peacefully). There?s a saying: "It?s not the gun you have to worry
about, it?s the person behind the trigger you have to worry about" and the
same can be said about player characters and the classes they play. It?s the
players that were using the thieves in the negative manner that are the real
enemy and not the guild. Throughout my online game playing experience (text
and graphics) the effectiveness of the one class is always dependant on the
player, so to say that taking out the thieves guild was to bring "balance" to
the "force" is really an "illusion" because another guild the Mages could rise

cont rise up and do the same damage and/or harassment as the thieves guild did
in the past. So if that happens, will the Mage class be "banned"? Of course
not because Mages are essential to this "rp" setting, and thus it is the same
way with the "backstabbers" (aka the rogues that can truly backstab). In my
last post i gave suggestions on how the thieves guild can be "trimmed" down to
a more "balanced" guild and let?s be real, for you cannot truly bring balance
to everything. Admins/GMs pls look at my last post for i strongly believed
that i came up with a good suggestion to the "thieves?, and ask other players
that want to play the ambusher/backstabber. Please don?t punish the style or
the tactics of the backstabbing, punish the exploit. Because of certain
players, you are punishing the other players that enjoy that type of play
style and those players that have obeyed the rules of the game system. Don?t
do this to the players, for they deserve better. Let?s come up with a better
?balanced? thief?s guild with those favorite styles of the ?ambush? that many
players enjoy.

Vorn again, short and sweet. i did nothing wrong with asking what i ask and
if i did then please take it to the Archwizards, but stop sending me your
offline text expressing your dislike with my subject. if you dont like what i
write then simply do not read, but stop the harassment. Devs and Archwizards,
i meant no offense or disrespect in any of my writing nor towards anybody and
if i have broken any legal rules then please kindly let me know and if you
need to take action upon me then that is fine. I do enjoy this game and the
work that has been put into it regardless of what i might agree or disagree
with. Again, if you do not like what i write then do not read, and please
stop harassing me. Thank you:)**

Okie, my reply is 2 parts, the second is an idea.
First, Dear Mr Facist Nazi a**holes. Whoever thinks that people don't have a
right to state their opinion in the game is just that. One of you people
thought it was a good idea to hire a tiger mission out on a newbie. We are
challenged with getting and keeping new players. So in response to a person's
idea, you spend a little of your money to make him hate the game? What is
wrong with you?

Second, Vorn is a 700k newbie. In the spirit of protecting newbies, how about
making a minimum exp and/or age before you can hire a tiger mission against
someone? There is no legitamate reason someone should have to pkill newbies
on the game. That being said, how about a level zap for the person who put
the tiger hit out on vorn? He's someone who used to like the game a lot more
than he does now. I personally would like to see people who have enoug of an
interest in making the game better that they write 4 pages on their ideas,
stay in the game. Letting this behavior continue doesn't support that goal.

Stal.

thank you for the defense Stalgrad. all i was trying to do was to bring back a
guild or class that i have enjoy playing for many years in other games and i
am certainly not trying to bring back something that was "overpowered". in rl
i am a veteran in the United States that served for 15 years and those tactics
i.e ambush have saved me many times and by no means did i ever want to cause
any trouble. but just because someone has put out a hit on me will NOT deter
me from getting my ideas across. I will continuees to try to think of
alternate ways for the "backstab" to be more balance and viable in this game.
again, regardless of the harassments and the hit put out on me, i still think
this game is a really great game for wonderous possiblities. It is nice to
see that there are players like Stalgrad that defend the right to express
ideas.

no offence dude, but a wiz has already said the idea has been talked about
many a time, plans have been made but not followed through with, one day it
might not happen, one day it might not. personally if you sit here whinging
every day for one fucking guild/skill to be implemented back in the game, you
deserve to get killed, also personally, if you've played here before, i dont
consider you a newbie, and nor should anyone else treat you like one.

Vorn again and i almost forgot. if by chance the backstab/ambush or even
theives get implemented back in then archers or even ranged type characters
should get a "sniper" type skill. **

I'm not quite sure if you are aware that we have skill 'dim mak' which works
quite a bit like backstab.

What it comes to ambush, most of our monsters don't move and ambushing a
nonmoving target would be more or less pointless.

Our archers, which are the only ranged type chars if you don't count casters,
already have an ability to 'aim' and score critical hits.

If your experience on batmud is really that 2d 15h, I would advice you to go
around and play the game as it is for a while. I'm not trying to discourage
any new players with ideas here, but in some cases new players try to change
the game for their needs.

Vorn again, i am NOT trying to gain an unfair advantage and please quit
assuming that about me.
It should not matter if i was playing this game for 20 years or 2 seconds,
anybody and everybody has a right to post their ideas even for whatever
purpose (this channel is called "ideas-wanted" for a reason)
Thank you for the wonderful negative experience that i have recieved and
legally did not deserve and i will certainly spread the word
for the few of you that have treated me with respect (you know who you are) a
BIG thank you for trying to make my experience on this game as decent as
possible.
I will probably get in trouble for saying this but since i am looked at as the
bad guy it doesnt matter. i feel like a black man (that i am in real life)
that had just walked into a KKK meeting. if this makes any Archwizard or Dev
angry against me and wants to take administrative action against me, then it
is in your total right, but please understand (or try to) my source of anger.
I will play the game for a couple more weeks (unless i somehow manage to get
banned, which after this post that should be easy) just to see how some things
work and then i will quit and find another game to play.
dispite my negative treatment for no reason, this game "system" is one of the
best i have played but as they say, "it takes one bad apple to spoil it for
the rest". in this case it was many.
this is my last post about thieves (or anything else for that matter) and i
wish that i could give a suguestion about harassment but sadly i think it will
be treated the same as my post about thieves.
one more thing, this is my first character on this game and i am NOT an old
player making up a new character and i think the Archwizards and Devs could
verify that but if not, then Devs and Archwizards you may contact me to
verify that.
Vorn signing off**