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BatMUD Forums > Ideas-wanted > Re: The Making of Spider Demons
Disclaimer: The below information has been gathered from conversations with
countless highbie/oldbies and people that have recently sacrificed for demons.
Not my own!
The key factors in making a demon is:
1) Have an item with a super high (6M+) sac value
2) Have your name on the item
3) The more the item is sac'ed the better chance for a shitty demon.
4) Wis/Int/KoIE eq, possibly high spider demon points, and of course,
EVERYONE'S FAVORITE, luck!
The flaw(s) in this system:
A) The fact that you can't make 'ancient' demons anymore, so all demons die
if not used for xxx period of time.
FINDING AN ITEM WITH HIGH SAC VALUE THAT HAS NOT BEEN SAC'ed 100x TIMES
BEFORE is truly impossible, expect for the top 5% of players.
It's sad that experienced people suggest buying an already made demon rather
than making it, since option 'B' makes it to where you have to sacrifice a
named 5-7M+ item multiple times to get 'lucky'. Could this system be looked
at, please.
countless highbie/oldbies and people that have recently sacrificed for demons.
Not my own!
The key factors in making a demon is:
1) Have an item with a super high (6M+) sac value
2) Have your name on the item
3) The more the item is sac'ed the better chance for a shitty demon.
4) Wis/Int/KoIE eq, possibly high spider demon points, and of course,
EVERYONE'S FAVORITE, luck!
The flaw(s) in this system:
A) The fact that you can't make 'ancient' demons anymore, so all demons die
if not used for xxx period of time.
FINDING AN ITEM WITH HIGH SAC VALUE THAT HAS NOT BEEN SAC'ed 100x TIMESBEFORE is truly impossible, expect for the top 5% of players.
It's sad that experienced people suggest buying an already made demon rather
than making it, since option 'B' makes it to where you have to sacrifice a
named 5-7M+ item multiple times to get 'lucky'. Could this system be looked
at, please.
Rating:
39
Votes:
43
This is an update on 'news ideas-wanted 10262', which 38 out of 40 people
voted positive. At the time of that article I had zero demon making
experience. Now I do and I will share the results!
Preparation:
1. Shrine sac 2x items. I did this at least two times every boot for 3 weeks.
2. +9 Cast Demonology from Book of Knowledge.
3. +8% KoIE from spider demon someone loaned me.
4. Got +10% spells for boot. (From shrine sacs this boot)
5. Got Burgle Arm this boot. (From Dark Baptism)
6. Amd, Blayke, Munkki, and Woocca loaned me TOP-END INT/WIS eqs.
7. Got maxluck from Magic CLoud 2mins before sac'ing for demons.
Stats:
120% Spider demon sacrifice
109% Cast demonology
138% Knowledge of Infernal Entities (KoIE)
351 INT + 414 WIS (After Int/Wis zaps)
Sac Items: (All items are repaired to max (awe/awe), named, and black aura!)
7.19m Rabbit Foot
6.47m Flail of Salvation
3.39m Ixii Sceptre
2.52m Thana Shield
1.68m Blade of Quickness
1.63m Sable Axe
1.27m Zhentorian Death Spear
Foot: 40letter, greater-god, 20 str,dex,int,wis 6 con, 160 hp, 290sp Superb:
Dam,Def,Meta Great: Frost Best Skill: Alertness
Flail: 38letter, greater-god, 12 str,con 20 dex,int,wis, 196hp, 234sp
Superb: Dam,Def,Meta,Pr Best Skill: Throw Weight, Reave Weapon
Shield: 32letter, demi-god, 20 dex,wis 14 con, 121hp, 100sp, Superb:
Dam,Def,Meta,PR Best Skill: Destructive Rage, Shadow Leap
Sable Axe: 27letter, superb, 14 str 20 dex,con,int 18 wis, 166hp, 81sp,
Superb: Def,Frost Mediocre: Dam Good: Meta Zero Skills
Sceptre: 26letter, god-like, 20 str,dex,int,wis 156hp, 206sp, Superb: Meta
Great: Def Fair: Dam Mediocre: Suffocation Best Skills: Merchant/Psi stuff
BoQ: 22letter, superb, 20 str,dex 6 con 4 wis 80hp, 65sp, Superb: Def,Dam
Fair: Meta,Corrosion Best Skills: Spider Sacrifice +12%, Word of Spite
Spear: 22letter, superb, 20 str,int,con 4 wis 126hp, 69sp, Superb: Shock
Good: Dam Mediocre: Meta Best Skills: Pin Down, Reaving
My conculsion about spider demon sac'ing: It's TOTALLY RANDOM. The 1st one to
sac item gets best demon seems to hold true! Ixii sceptre = Awesome
voted positive. At the time of that article I had zero demon making
experience. Now I do and I will share the results!
Preparation:
1. Shrine sac 2x items. I did this at least two times every boot for 3 weeks.
2. +9 Cast Demonology from Book of Knowledge.
3. +8% KoIE from spider demon someone loaned me.
4. Got +10% spells for boot. (From shrine sacs this boot)
5. Got Burgle Arm this boot. (From Dark Baptism)
6. Amd, Blayke, Munkki, and Woocca loaned me TOP-END INT/WIS eqs.
7. Got maxluck from Magic CLoud 2mins before sac'ing for demons.
Stats:
120% Spider demon sacrifice
109% Cast demonology
138% Knowledge of Infernal Entities (KoIE)
351 INT + 414 WIS (After Int/Wis zaps)
Sac Items: (All items are repaired to max (awe/awe), named, and black aura!)
7.19m Rabbit Foot
6.47m Flail of Salvation
3.39m Ixii Sceptre
2.52m Thana Shield
1.68m Blade of Quickness
1.63m Sable Axe
1.27m Zhentorian Death Spear
Foot: 40letter, greater-god, 20 str,dex,int,wis 6 con, 160 hp, 290sp Superb:
Dam,Def,Meta Great: Frost Best Skill: Alertness
Flail: 38letter, greater-god, 12 str,con 20 dex,int,wis, 196hp, 234sp
Superb: Dam,Def,Meta,Pr Best Skill: Throw Weight, Reave Weapon
Shield: 32letter, demi-god, 20 dex,wis 14 con, 121hp, 100sp, Superb:
Dam,Def,Meta,PR Best Skill: Destructive Rage, Shadow Leap
Sable Axe: 27letter, superb, 14 str 20 dex,con,int 18 wis, 166hp, 81sp,
Superb: Def,Frost Mediocre: Dam Good: Meta Zero Skills
Sceptre: 26letter, god-like, 20 str,dex,int,wis 156hp, 206sp, Superb: Meta
Great: Def Fair: Dam Mediocre: Suffocation Best Skills: Merchant/Psi stuff
BoQ: 22letter, superb, 20 str,dex 6 con 4 wis 80hp, 65sp, Superb: Def,Dam
Fair: Meta,Corrosion Best Skills: Spider Sacrifice +12%, Word of Spite
Spear: 22letter, superb, 20 str,int,con 4 wis 126hp, 69sp, Superb: Shock
Good: Dam Mediocre: Meta Best Skills: Pin Down, Reaving
My conculsion about spider demon sac'ing: It's TOTALLY RANDOM. The 1st one to
sac item gets best demon seems to hold true! Ixii sceptre = Awesome
Rating:
6
Votes:
6
Quote:
My conculsion about spider demon sac'ing: It's TOTALLY RANDOM. The 1st one to
sac item gets best demon seems to hold true! Ixii sceptre = Awesome
sac item gets best demon seems to hold true! Ixii sceptre = Awesome
old great demons were done by saccing tons and tons and tons and tons of
items, to find the perfect random. Sure, the sac values were different
back then, but still. I think Baltzebub alone sacced easily hundreds of
xormors in addition to the large amount of real eq saccing. Now, for the
really top demons you do need huge sac values, and with ridiculous sac
you get ridiculous demons (like the 25m sac sbs, demon was dested after).
Now, as the current guild maintainer I'll share this. I'm pretty happy
with the random, making totally awesome demons shouldn't be simple, and
lets face it, there aren't that many totally yber sac-items around,
just making a good demon from every great sac would go against the design.
Now, I know the sac values of many many items have been lowered, so
the sac formulas could perhaps use with some re-evaluating. However,
looking at the code makes one despair, so I wouldn't keep my hopes
up. It works, so I'm not going to try to fix it...
-Era of slacking
Rating:
-1
Votes:
7
I have never made any demons and haven't been spider after the "overhaul" so
might be bit out of the line here.
But what I have heard the "value" of item (in eyes of making demons) drops the
more it is used by anyone. Isn't this bit twisted if the system atm encourages
saccing countless times in hopes of getting good strike of luck. Didn't you
there Era just mention about heavy random in it.
So if this is the case I would personally suggest 1) make it less random 2)
remove the down-valuing of items. Atm the more you try the less your changes
are in the long run?
Yours,
Z
might be bit out of the line here.
But what I have heard the "value" of item (in eyes of making demons) drops the
more it is used by anyone. Isn't this bit twisted if the system atm encourages
saccing countless times in hopes of getting good strike of luck. Didn't you
there Era just mention about heavy random in it.
So if this is the case I would personally suggest 1) make it less random 2)
remove the down-valuing of items. Atm the more you try the less your changes
are in the long run?
Yours,
Z
Rating:
14
Votes:
14
Quote:
Now, as the current guild maintainer I'll share this. I'm pretty happy
with the random, making totally awesome demons shouldn't be simple, and
lets face it, there aren't that many totally yber sac-items around,
just making a good demon from every great sac would go against the design.
Now, I know the sac values of many many items have been lowered, so
the sac formulas could perhaps use with some re-evaluating. However,
looking at the code makes one despair, so I wouldn't keep my hopes
up. It works, so I'm not going to try to fix it...
with the random, making totally awesome demons shouldn't be simple, and
lets face it, there aren't that many totally yber sac-items around,
just making a good demon from every great sac would go against the design.
Now, I know the sac values of many many items have been lowered, so
the sac formulas could perhaps use with some re-evaluating. However,
looking at the code makes one despair, so I wouldn't keep my hopes
up. It works, so I'm not going to try to fix it...
I figured minmax'ing spider with thrikhren, dropping all my training points in
INT+WIS, the books of knowledge, the spider tome, zaps, eq, +maxluck from
Magic Cloud, +10% spells from shrine sac, and the burgle arm would reduce
this luck factor with skill/eq/boons/time/effort. The results are pretty
clear here The Ixii sceptre (ultra rare item with random stats) made almost
as good demon has Rabbit Foot that has 4m more sac value. To reply to my post
with saying 'it shouldn't be simple'..well, it insulting. Period.
Everyone agrees demon making is fucked up and the more you sac something the
worse your demon. I posted my research to prove that point which everyone else
already knew, but it was just rumoured. Your reply refusing to fix it,
because the code is a nightmare, well that's no reply at all. If you can't
handle the job, please step down as a spider guild GM!
Rating:
9
Votes:
17
All right, one final reply on this matter, for now.
First, about the demons. The sac-values of cheaper items has
gone down since the guild came out, so nowadays it's much
harder to get a good medium-sized demon than previously. There
is the random, and it's harder to get those pesky 1m sac items.
Now, the really big, top end demons. If my memory is correct,
the sac values from top items hasn't really changed that much,
and looking at the code (yes, your first post made me look) I'm
pretty confident it's roughly as easy to get TOP demons as it
has always been. Or, in other words, really really hard.
Finally, some psychology. Good ideas are good, they might lead
to something done. Well written posts are good too, like your
first post, which actually caused me to look at the code and
bother to answer that while I agree, it's really not on the top
of my todo list. Even bad ideas might be good, mostly they just
get ignored, but they might spark a good idea on some coder.
BUT. Insults, suggestions of stopping coding or stepping down
from GM role, they are another thing altogether. Sometimes they
are just funny (general 2859), but more often not so. In this
particular case it made me write the silly flame of yesterday
(no, I was not serious even when writing that, do notice the
newsgroup). More than that though, I actually read the code
after the first post, which naturally made the sac code more
relevant, and closer to the top of my todo list.
Your later post made sure it dropped back to the bottom.
-Era of psychology
First, about the demons. The sac-values of cheaper items has
gone down since the guild came out, so nowadays it's much
harder to get a good medium-sized demon than previously. There
is the random, and it's harder to get those pesky 1m sac items.
Now, the really big, top end demons. If my memory is correct,
the sac values from top items hasn't really changed that much,
and looking at the code (yes, your first post made me look) I'm
pretty confident it's roughly as easy to get TOP demons as it
has always been. Or, in other words, really really hard.
Finally, some psychology. Good ideas are good, they might lead
to something done. Well written posts are good too, like your
first post, which actually caused me to look at the code and
bother to answer that while I agree, it's really not on the top
of my todo list. Even bad ideas might be good, mostly they just
get ignored, but they might spark a good idea on some coder.
BUT. Insults, suggestions of stopping coding or stepping down
from GM role, they are another thing altogether. Sometimes they
are just funny (general 2859), but more often not so. In this
particular case it made me write the silly flame of yesterday
(no, I was not serious even when writing that, do notice the
newsgroup). More than that though, I actually read the code
after the first post, which naturally made the sac code more
relevant, and closer to the top of my todo list.
Your later post made sure it dropped back to the bottom.
-Era of psychology
Rating:
3
Votes:
16
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