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BatMUD Forums > General > Re: Removing Players in 2021

 
 
#1
05 Jul 2021 09:44
 
 
Straight to the point.
I think removing players in this day and age is stupid.

We all love this game and want it to _GROW_. Removing
players, who have invested years into the game, as a
punishment is both cruel and counterproductive to growth.
There must be better ways?

As for players, its 2021, this level of hypocricy and
racism is so archaic and should go.

The next time you rat on your fellow players, effectively
harming the game, think about this:
- Have you ever robotted an eq monster special or attended
a party where the leader does it?
- Have you ever accepted goods from a merchant or alchemist?
News flash: they were robotted.
- Have you ever robotted disciple/bard/nun/tarm/druid/whatnot
reputation or partied with someone who has?
- Have you ever abused a guild while knowing its unbalanced?
- Have you ever bought inf orbs from No^C^C someone who
must have robotted them?
- Are you really doing this because of the "rules"? Or for
envy and hoping to remove some competition?

... just to name a few. Don't be hypocrites and just rat on
people who dont speak the same language as you.
Better yet, don't rat at all, just solve the problem.

Here's the conundrum: do we make this into a snitch-fest
and wreck the game? Continue with this redneck behaviour?
Or start finding solutions?

ps. we need more chinese players.

 
 
 
Nosunrise
6y, 130d, 12h, 15m, 10s old
Level:
48
 
 
#2
05 Jul 2021 15:18
 
 
Nosunrise wrote:
Straight to the point.
I think removing players in this day and age is stupid.

We all love this game and want it to _GROW_. Removing
players, who have invested years into the game, as a
punishment is both cruel and counterproductive to growth.
There must be better ways?

As for players, its 2021, this level of hypocricy and
racism is so archaic and should go.

The next time you rat on your fellow players, effectively
harming the game, think about this:
- Have you ever robotted an eq monster special or attended
a party where the leader does it?
- Have you ever accepted goods from a merchant or alchemist?
News flash: they were robotted.
- Have you ever robotted disciple/bard/nun/tarm/druid/whatnot
reputation or partied with someone who has?
- Have you ever abused a guild while knowing its unbalanced?
- Have you ever bought inf orbs from No^C^C someone who
must have robotted them?
- Are you really doing this because of the "rules"? Or for
envy and hoping to remove some competition?

... just to name a few. Don't be hypocrites and just rat on
people who dont speak the same language as you.
Better yet, don't rat at all, just solve the problem.

Here's the conundrum: do we make this into a snitch-fest
and wreck the game? Continue with this redneck behaviour?
Or start finding solutions?

ps. we need more chinese players.

Wall of Text incoming..3...2..1...run for your life!

Not necessarily speaking for the whole administration here, but since this
discussion topic has been opened, I will be sharing some personal views and
my experiences when it comes to robotting and player removals. I would agree
with Nosunrise that we all love this game and want it to grow. Most of us have
spent more hours than a normal person should playing this game, building its
community, coding its content or implementing awesome sites hosted online. We
welcome everybody to our community and hope to make new friends as the game
grows. The game has a lot to offer and the community is one of a kind. I have
personally made many friends across the globe (unless you're a flat earther).

Robotting is like legalizing marihuana. There's no point to arguing whether
you're for or against it, because we're only interested in this failed
allegory that I will be presenting to you. There are people who see that we
should get rid of robotting rules altogether and then there are people who
think that big-scale robotting would make this a much worse place. Personally
I don't think that people should be primarily be concerned what other players
do, but concentrate on their own playing and having fun.

However, it doesn't matter what I think, because there are certainly elements
in the game where people compete against each other for leadership, party
slots and who knows what. Thus the actions of players influence other players.
Allowing robotting would give some kind of advantage to those who are skilled
in writing scripts but in the worst case scenario, even those who are not
good at that would have to start learning. Also what would happen to the
social element if people would leave their robots playing? Would this still
be the same game we love or a playground where people compete with their
scriptwriting skills? This might not be what happens, but it's a possibility.
My personal opinion is that we shouldn't legalize grand-scale robotting,
partly for the reasons mentioned above, because I'm worried for the same
thing that Nosunrise is: It might be counterproductive to growth.

When it comes to quests like creating 25000 torches I'm all for creating
something more interesting. The game content should never be designed
to promote mindless repetition and at personal level I'm always trying to
create content that discourages it and encouraging my fellow developers
to seek alternatives as well. However, it is not easy to come up with
content that couldn't be abused by creative script writers.

But if there's one thing to take from my robotting/marihuana allegory,
it's that like marihuana, robotting is not legal yet and if it never
becomes legal, certain rules will be enforced by the administration no
matter what people may personally think of the rules.

As Nosunrise points out, removal is a cruel punishment. In one scenario player
has to start from the beginning, or they quit altogether and possibly lose
friends they've made over the years. Nosunrise points out some examples of
robotting which I personally think are some of the lighter infractions, yet
I personally removed three people last Thursday. Let's park our DeLorean
back in time to take a look at the history of these three people. The
real story would probably have more than three people, because some other
players with close association to these people have already been removed
in the past because of other incidents. So, let's just concentrate on
these three people.

As often is the case, the administration receives some player reports about
some people who they think are violating the rules. Why they choose to
report certain players is something I'd rather not discuss. Any possible
ulterior, malovolent motifs are issues of soul-searching and on the
conscience of each individual. Nonetheless, if people are reported, we
often need to investigate and it should be said that we don't inflict
punishments on people just because someone is reported.

In the case of these three, I did receive a report. These people have actually
been reported many times before and there is even a hint of irony in this
case as one of the people who was removed last Thursday used to consistently
report some of these other people for robotting before they became his own
acquaintances or friends. But before we get to last Thursday, let's take a
look at the history of these three and at this point I should point out that
I'm not telling any of this to cause embarrassment to the removed players
but to shed some light to the situation and the decision process.

Some of these people have a long history. The first incident is robotting
related, but I'm not entirely certain of details because I wasn't the one who
caught them and the punishment for them was given by someone else. I'm under
the impression that they were told that next time they would be removed if
they were caught of doing it again and at that time they were banished
temporarily to teach a lesson.

Some months passed and at certain point I caught these people robotting or
enabling someone else to robot. This basically involved one person controlling
about six characters who had everything automated to participate in combat.
They must have been doing this for some time, because even I monitored these
things for about two weeks before acting on it, because I wanted to be
completely sure that it's a robotting case and not something else. I had
decided beforehand that if it turns out that they're robotting I need to
remove them, because they had already been warned that their next time would
lead into removal. Then I didn't have the heart to remove them, and banished
them for three months instead, because I felt like removal has that
permanence. Also I know that removal is a tough pill to swallow, so I decided
to give them a second or in this case a third chance.

Now, in very recent past, it is last week that our story takes place, when
I received a report on Tuesday or Wednesday that concerned these gentlemen
and what I see is basically two people in the same party. One of them is
wearing and removing an item which causes damage when being worn, and the
other one is casting healing spells at him. At one point this went on for
7 hours straight without nothing of other significance being done. At some
point the target of spell changed, but nothing else did and then it would
once again go on for hours. All this during one day, not to mention any
other days. For those who are not aware of what the purpose of this is, it
is basically done to increase Tarmalen reputation, which also affects
any other players competing for guild leaderships etc.

It was obvious that if I did nothing, they would just continue it. One can
argue there isn't much harm done, but the reason why this was reported was
that someone felt there was harm done. Someone felt that no matter how
hard or long they played, they would never be able to keep up with this
pace in the leadership competition.

So how do we proceed? We have talked to these people, we have told them not
to do it. We have tried reasoning with them, we have warned them there will
be repercussions if this continues, we have banished them several times
for continuing to violate our community's rules. So why is removal still
a thing? Because we have exhausted our better ways. We have no longer
wisdom to share or lessons to teach because nothing else seems to help.
I have personally spent very many hours checking in on reports of
suspicious activity spanning over several weeks just to make sure that
people would not be punished wrongly and that the margin of error would
be minimal to non-existent and I think I speak for the whole administration
now when I say that we don't enjoy doing this. Having to remove someone
also ruins my day because I do not enjoy bringing misery to others, and
removals are always painful. Most of us would prefer spending our time
developing projects that bring joy for the community rather than invoking
punishments to our playerbase. I remember the displays of might that
archwizards showed in the 90s and the mad egotrips that sometimes
meant that you'd become collateral damage just by looking wrong way. Now
it's 2021 and now the same behaviour would make us look very bad. I chose
to do the removals anonymously last week because I don't wish punishments
to be somehow embodied as extension of my personality. However, I fully
stand behind my decision and feel it was the right call having seen
the extent of how far this script playing has progressed for some people.
In some cases it feels that a person has quit playing their character
altogether and have simply replaced playing with a full digital presence.

I'm open to any alternative working ideas on how to deal with these cases
in the future, but unless there is a new novel idea which also resolves
the situation in satisfactory way, the removals will remain a tool in
my toolbox at least.

But that's just my two cents,
But that's just my three cents,
But that's just my four cents,
But that's just my five cents,

Sorry, the money trigger seems to be on...

But that's just my two cents,

--Darol


 
Rating:
17
Votes:
17
 
 
Darol
A r c h w i z a r d
8y, 184d, 3h, 50m, 33s old
Level:
600 [Wizard]
 
 
#3
05 Jul 2021 22:27
 
 

I know it happens and I am sure it is not just the Chinese guys. However,
this was not thier first time. They got what they deserved, and so should
anyone else who is cheating.

Suppose it is pretty well known that I do not like Lanaya. Ugliness was cool
and I will miss him. Still I feel removal is just.

 
Rating:
3
Votes:
3
 
 
Malcom
2y, 275d, 9h, 14m, 39s old
Level:
103
 
 
#4
07 Jul 2021 03:45
 
 
Nosunrise wrote:
Straight to the point.
I think removing players in this day and age is stupid.

We all love this game and want it to _GROW_. Removing
players, who have invested years into the game, as a
punishment is both cruel and counterproductive to growth.
There must be better ways?

As for players, its 2021, this level of hypocricy and
racism is so archaic and should go.

The next time you rat on your fellow players, effectively
harming the game, think about this:
- Have you ever robotted an eq monster special or attended
a party where the leader does it?
- Have you ever accepted goods from a merchant or alchemist?
News flash: they were robotted.
- Have you ever robotted disciple/bard/nun/tarm/druid/whatnot
reputation or partied with someone who has?
- Have you ever abused a guild while knowing its unbalanced?
- Have you ever bought inf orbs from No^C^C someone who
must have robotted them?
- Are you really doing this because of the "rules"? Or for
envy and hoping to remove some competition?

... just to name a few. Don't be hypocrites and just rat on
people who dont speak the same language as you.
Better yet, don't rat at all, just solve the problem.

Here's the conundrum: do we make this into a snitch-fest
and wreck the game? Continue with this redneck behaviour?
Or start finding solutions?

ps. we need more chinese players.

rm


 
Rating:
11
Votes:
11
 
 
Cyberman
S a g e
10y, 320d, 3h, 12m, 46s old
Level:
152 [Wizard]