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BatMUD Forums > Bs > Re: armour coverage and avoids

 
 
#1
16 Jan 2007 03:12
 
 
Low or non-existant armour coverage to give much +avoids.

 
Rating:
1
Votes:
5
 
 
Lyriikka
1y, 18d, 20h, 5m, 44s old
Level:
90
 
 
#2
16 Jan 2007 04:37
 
 
Lyriikka wrote:
Low or non-existant armour coverage to give much +avoids.
Why?

Shinarae Lluminus

 
Rating:
1
Votes:
4
 
 
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 299d, 18h, 33m, 30s old
Level:
200 [Wizard]
 
 
#3
16 Jan 2007 12:56
 
 
Quote:
Lyriikka wrote:
Low or non-existant armour coverage to give much +avoids.
Shinarae wrote:
Why?
Harder to avoid and dodge with much armour.

 
Rating:
-4
Votes:
6
 
 
Lyriikka
1y, 18d, 20h, 27m, 24s old
Level:
90
 
 
#4
16 Jan 2007 13:03
 
 
Lyriikka wrote:
Quote:
Lyriikka wrote:
Low or non-existant armour coverage to give much +avoids.
Shinarae wrote:
Why?
Harder to avoid and dodge with much armour.
1) There is an already existing system that does just that. It is based on
weight, not coverage, which makes sense to me because a 100kg backpack should
slow you down as much as, if not more than, a 100kg suit of armour.
2) +avoid and +dodge are not the same thing. One can be tumbled, the other
cannot.
3) You are asking for a pure upgrade for players with no special skill, boon,
or eq. You didn't say "lower avoids for high coverage" you said "bonus avoids
for no coverage". I don't picture the standard dwarf merchant, being untrained
in the ways of combat, suddenly turning into an Olympic-caliber gymnast
because he's only wearing clothing. Perhaps our monks or ninjas could make use
of such a system, something vaguely like contact reflexes. But even then, I
would be unlikely to say "those skin-tight silk armour pieces you're wearing
interfere with your movement". I just can't see why that would work.

Shinarae Lluminus

 
Rating:
6
Votes:
10
 
 
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 299d, 19h, 19m, 45s old
Level:
200 [Wizard]
 
 
#5
18 Jan 2007 00:35
 
 
"You are asking for a pure upgrade for players with no special skill, boon, or
eq."

I supose that is true, but if you think about Lyrikka's suggestion
for more then a nanosecond you'd realize that a player with almost
no armour on to take advantage of the +avoid would have shitty gen
prots and less stats.
And if the "skin-tight silk armour" concept breaks the reasoning
then code to compensate for that, Duh.

- blackstar -

 
Rating:
-7
Votes:
7
 
 
Blackstar
351d, 0h, 1m, 52s old
Level:
83
 
 
#6
18 Jan 2007 10:56
 
 
Blackstar wrote:
"You are asking for a pure upgrade for players with no special skill, boon, or
eq."

I supose that is true, but if you think about Lyrikka's suggestion
for more then a nanosecond you'd realize that a player with almost
no armour on to take advantage of the +avoid would have shitty gen
prots and less stats.
And if the "skin-tight silk armour" concept breaks the reasoning
then code to compensate for that, Duh.
Actually, I did think about it for more than a nanosecond. I thought "why
would someone carrying a dufflebag filled with scrap iron in each hand have an
easier time avoiding being struck than a man wearing a parka? The dufflebags
clearly provide no coverage whatsoever, being either wielded or held eq, while
the parka provides pretty damn near 100% coverage. Yet I don't see why
grabbing an anchor in each hand would be beneficial to the untrained (key word
here) combatant trying to get out of the way of...well, pretty much anything.
Oh sure, the parka's probably a bit on the bulky side, but I'll bet the wearer
can still hop side to side without whacking their shins on a couple hundred
kilos of metal.

Now I'm not saying that Mr. Parka will kick the crap out of Duffleman. But I
sure don't see why Duffleman would have a noticable advantage in the
getting-the-hell-out-of-the-way department whlle he insists on holding his
heavy metal gear. I'm surely not going to give him free ninja moves over, say,
a barbarian in a leather battlesuit, a ranger in mithril elfin chain, or one
of those kung-fu monks in a robe you see in badly dubbed Asian movies. I might
have a harder time deciding if he can out-maneuver a knight in full 1cm-thick
steel plate mail, maybe, but I'd at least be thinking "that armour is probably
made to be somewhat balanced and the knight is probably trained to move in it
effectively. It'll slow him down, but what if it was made of aluminium?
Kevlar? Enchanted air? Now I'm not so sure."

In the end, I couldn't think of any reason why someone would have an increased
ability to duck, flinch, or otherwise get out of the way of incoming danger
because they're naked, when there are perfectly good lightweight,
form-fitting, multislot armours out there designed for maneuverability.
Perhaps he has specialized training, but that would be dodge. And when the
blow actually hits...well, even a parka's better than nothing.

Oh, and almost all monsters are naked. Remember that, too.

Shinarae Lluminus

 
Rating:
4
Votes:
4
 
 
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 300d, 22h, 6m, 7s old
Level:
200 [Wizard]
 
 
#7
18 Jan 2007 10:56
 
 
Quote:
In the end, I couldn\'t think of any reason why someone would have an increased
ability to duck, flinch, or otherwise get out of the way of incoming danger
because they\'re naked, when there are perfectly good lightweight,
form-fitting, multislot armours out there designed for maneuverability.
Perhaps he has specialized training, but that would be dodge. And when the
blow actually hits...well, even a parka\'s better than nothing.

Oh, and almost all monsters are naked. Remember that, too.
I agree that there seems to be no reason to allow naked mobs/characters to
gain additional avoiding abilities, but I want to add that one could argue
that
some armours could actually add to encumbernace beyond simply their weight.

For example, I\'d say that wearing a tuxedo, a pair of fishing waders, an
inflated
life jacket and water wings and carrying a sleeping blanket is going to be more

encumbering than a backpack containing a few bottles of water.

Of course, there\'s probably no easy way to add such features at the moment.

Tim

 
Rating:
-3
Votes:
3
 
 
Tim
167d, 5h, 27m, 6s old
Level:
51
 
 
#8
18 Jan 2007 19:24
 
 
Alot of rl-reasoning to justify decisions in a fantasy online game.
Very nice but I still disagree. Besides maybe if you *gasp* didn't make
the code universal and only had it effect players the mobs wouldn't
be uptuned. If you really want to continue the rl logic then, a person
in real life would drop their bags before they got into a fist fight
I doubt they would take off all their clothes, unless maybe you're
Gotrek (I hear he fights rl in the nude). Shinarae some advice,
if you ever get in a fight, drop the duffle bag first :D

- blackstar -

 
Rating:
-8
Votes:
8
 
 
Blackstar
351d, 2h, 53m, 32s old
Level:
83
 
 
#9
19 Jan 2007 05:06
 
 
Blackstar wrote:
Alot of rl-reasoning to justify decisions in a fantasy online game.
Very nice but I still disagree. Besides maybe if you *gasp* didn't make
the code universal and only had it effect players the mobs wouldn't
be uptuned. If you really want to continue the rl logic then, a person
in real life would drop their bags before they got into a fist fight
I doubt they would take off all their clothes, unless maybe you're
Gotrek (I hear he fights rl in the nude). Shinarae some advice,
if you ever get in a fight, drop the duffle bag first :D
Dude, Shinarae would just whim rm his ass! Duh!

 
Rating:
1
Votes:
1
 
 
Ramjett
C o d e s l a v e
24y, 130d, 21h, 51m, 16s old
Level:
21 [Wizard]
 
 
#10
21 Jan 2007 04:50
 
 
Blackstar wrote:
Alot of rl-reasoning to justify decisions in a fantasy online game.
Very nice but I still disagree. Besides maybe if you *gasp* didn't make
the code universal and only had it effect players the mobs wouldn't
be uptuned. If you really want to continue the rl logic then, a person
in real life would drop their bags before they got into a fist fight
I doubt they would take off all their clothes, unless maybe you're
Gotrek (I hear he fights rl in the nude). Shinarae some advice,
if you ever get in a fight, drop the duffle bag first :D
Hoo boy. I find myself being dragged into this ridiculous thread yet again.

1) I find myself overwhelmingly compelled to respond to ideas, which are
originally posted with rl logic, with rl logic. If the original idea had been
based on game tune issues, I'd probably have responded along the same lines. I
find it makes for a much more civilized debate than "stfu, I'm and arch and
you're not so TBRBRBT"
2) I _also_ find that an idea based on rl logic, but which should apply to a
mortal player human warrior but not an NPC monster human warrior, unsettling
at best. Again, maybe if it was a game tune/balance issue, that wouldn't be
such a concern.
3) Yes, a lot of players on BatMUD do "drop the dufflebag" with their
collected cash/donate items before the next fight. Some even dump it in the
monster they're about to kill (which is especially embarrassing if the monster
turns out to be turbo, but hey, that's another post). But it has to do with
weight and dodge/spellcasting speed. A merchant stomping bunnies for pelts
doesn't need to do that (and also has a floating disc). My comments about the
dufflebags were referring to an _unskilled_ combatant, who therefore has no
dodge% to lose and no spells to slow down. Currently, there's no point in him
dropping them, according to BatMUD rules. This might fly in the face of common
sense, but then, so does +avoid when you're butt naked.

Shinarae Lluminus

 
Rating:
6
Votes:
6
 
 
Shinarae
A r c h w i z a r d
1y, 301d, 1h, 39m, 6s old
Level:
200 [Wizard]