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BatMUD Forums > Ideas-wanted > Re: Descad
I suggested this few months back, but at the moment the 'need vs cost in
codetime' wasnt high enough.
Perhaps it is needed now, and i think it's still valid idea.
(Oh yes i bet you could even charge 5m cash for it, and get X * 5m cash out
from the game).
Gotrek wrote:
I suggested this few months back, but at the moment the 'need vs cost in
codetime' wasnt high enough.
codetime' wasnt high enough.
The latest one:
< ~/code/python/eqpool > wc *.py \
admin/{credits,ctransfer,markparty,mischtml-old,selleq,showeq}.py
85 225 2260 addparty.py
31 64 499 common.py
21 32 348 credits.py
42 128 913 creditscommon.py
253 730 7145 dbaccess.py
30 56 588 history.py
20 29 384 index.py
92 243 2547 mischtml.py
65 198 2175 parties.py
16 17 183 rules.py
49 115 1071 showcredithistory.py
74 194 1928 showeq.py
34 67 728 admin/credits.py
67 213 1950 admin/ctransfer.py
56 178 1754 admin/markparty.py
71 204 2128 admin/mischtml-old.py
115 315 3081 admin/selleq.py
76 194 1948 admin/showeq.py
1197 3202 31630 total
< ~/code/python/eqpool >
Let's do little guessing:
Impleting same using LPC takes 5 times more code lines than using Python.
LPC coder with medium experience can do about 2 fully working
lines in a minute. Hmm, it means 5*1200/2/60 = 50 hours. Before coding
the system needs to be designed; let's allocate another 50 hours for the
design phase -> 100 hours totally (actual testing is done by mortals, so
no need to include testing time).
Also we assume our LPC coder is hard-working, he/she uses 3 hours of his/her
free time every day for this project. In theory we should have fully
working system in a month. (In reality it would probably take 3-6 months
since wizards don't have time to code every day.)
-Thelo
...continued
Other things to notice:
LPC coder should have a good picture how different eq-pool systems work.
Every society has its own credit sharing / eq-party policies, leader
system, rules and so on. In my systems I have been able to partly hardcode
policies since I have tailored system(s) only for one society at time.
Some variability could be possible via different models:
Model 1 would be simple:
* when eq is sold, everyone always gets equal share
* there are no penalties for anything
* credit transfer between members isn't possible
Model 2 could be more advanced:
* eq-party leader gets more credits than others when eq is sold
* if you have been in party which has done the eq and you buy the eq,
you don't have to pay as much as others (who haven't been in the same party)
* if you miss planned eq-party you get automatically penalty
and you need to pay 100k credits to other party members
* credit transfer between members is possible when "source member" have
positive credits
* people with negative credits cannot buy stuff
Model 3:
* let the members do manually most things (credit sharing, eq-party planning)
Model 4:
* something else (more radical differences compared to earlier models
if those mentioned ones didn't suit for you)
Maybe society masters could define their own models via some definition
language?
Ponder, was all this explaining useful? Wizards probably already know
how to add this kind of stuff to projects. I have also gotten little
off-track, original request was only those society news groups.
-Thelo
Other things to notice:
LPC coder should have a good picture how different eq-pool systems work.
Every society has its own credit sharing / eq-party policies, leader
system, rules and so on. In my systems I have been able to partly hardcode
policies since I have tailored system(s) only for one society at time.
Some variability could be possible via different models:
Model 1 would be simple:
* when eq is sold, everyone always gets equal share
* there are no penalties for anything
* credit transfer between members isn't possible
Model 2 could be more advanced:
* eq-party leader gets more credits than others when eq is sold
* if you have been in party which has done the eq and you buy the eq,
you don't have to pay as much as others (who haven't been in the same party)
* if you miss planned eq-party you get automatically penalty
and you need to pay 100k credits to other party members
* credit transfer between members is possible when "source member" have
positive credits
* people with negative credits cannot buy stuff
Model 3:
* let the members do manually most things (credit sharing, eq-party planning)
Model 4:
* something else (more radical differences compared to earlier models
if those mentioned ones didn't suit for you)
Maybe society masters could define their own models via some definition
language?
Ponder, was all this explaining useful? Wizards probably already know
how to add this kind of stuff to projects. I have also gotten little
off-track, original request was only those society news groups.
-Thelo
You forget one simple thing. Newsgroups _are_ already there. Adding a piece of
code which is going to add a voluntarily group with secific access definition
will take me no longer than a couple of hours includeing betatest. The only
reason why it was not yet implemented is that a) not enough people want this,
b) some other wizards didn't like the idea, c) I'm not very fond of
implementing one-man projects.
Adding eqpool system on top of that... Oh well, depends on the system
architechture, but I do not think it will be much more than a table in sql
with a few functions on top of that. So that 3-6 months is a little bit
overdone. (FYI, first version of newsreader was out in about 1 month after
code start, including the fact that I was a little bit occupied with RL stuff
as well at times). So this calculation is a little bit rough, to my
understanding, or takes a very inexperienced coder to make in your timescale.
Then. 2 working lines a minute... Most of the code is copypaste anyway if you
already have something coded. Especially database related applications.
All the same stuf all over and over again with different sql queries and
callback functions. So substract time spent to create a db interface, or
divide it at least by 2. Well, anyway, you got the point. It's not that I'm
against this kind of system, it's that we need people to use it/arches-wizards
to agree to the plan.
--
--
Favorit.
^o^
code which is going to add a voluntarily group with secific access definition
will take me no longer than a couple of hours includeing betatest. The only
reason why it was not yet implemented is that a) not enough people want this,
b) some other wizards didn't like the idea, c) I'm not very fond of
implementing one-man projects.
Adding eqpool system on top of that... Oh well, depends on the system
architechture, but I do not think it will be much more than a table in sql
with a few functions on top of that. So that 3-6 months is a little bit
overdone. (FYI, first version of newsreader was out in about 1 month after
code start, including the fact that I was a little bit occupied with RL stuff
as well at times). So this calculation is a little bit rough, to my
understanding, or takes a very inexperienced coder to make in your timescale.
Then. 2 working lines a minute... Most of the code is copypaste anyway if you
already have something coded.
Especially database related applications.All the same stuf all over and over again with different sql queries and
callback functions. So substract time spent to create a db interface, or
divide it at least by 2. Well, anyway, you got the point. It's not that I'm
against this kind of system, it's that we need people to use it/arches-wizards
to agree to the plan.
--
--
Favorit.
^o^
Quote:
reason why it was not yet implemented is that a) not enough people want
That\'s just wrong, I\'m guessing most of the people involved in an
ss, doing eq or not, would love to see this implemented. And we\'ve seen
more then one player ask for it, but it still doesnt seem to happend.
Quote:
b) some other wizards didn\'t like the idea,
reasons TO code it.
c) I\'m not very fond of implementing one-man projects.
I\'ll refer to my answer on a.
So, go code!
/Mer.
Oh come on, we provide a game here. If you want to build some
societies for eqpooling, eqsharing or whatever, don't expect that
we will automatically code all mechanics for you. It's up to
every society to decide how they run and what they do. Especially
with societies, there's always going to be some society-specific
need that would require a bunch of custom code (some societies
award points for killing certain monster types for example) - we
can't be expected to provide code just because some players are
too lazy to manage their own society. Make your own website with
eqpooling and stuff if you need that functionality.
Same thing goes with society newsgroups. There are already pcity
bulletinboard code in the game (that rarely ever gets used) - use
them instead of occupying our coders with even more (useless?)
feature requests.
++ Gore
societies for eqpooling, eqsharing or whatever, don't expect that
we will automatically code all mechanics for you. It's up to
every society to decide how they run and what they do. Especially
with societies, there's always going to be some society-specific
need that would require a bunch of custom code (some societies
award points for killing certain monster types for example) - we
can't be expected to provide code just because some players are
too lazy to manage their own society. Make your own website with
eqpooling and stuff if you need that functionality.
Same thing goes with society newsgroups. There are already pcity
bulletinboard code in the game (that rarely ever gets used) - use
them instead of occupying our coders with even more (useless?)
feature requests.
++ Gore
Rating:
-1
Votes:
1
Quote:
Oh come on, we provide a game here. If you want to build some
societies for eqpooling, eqsharing or whatever, don\'t expect that
we will automatically code all mechanics for you. It\'s up to
every society to decide how they run and what they do. Especially
with societies, there\'s always going to be some society-specific
need that would require a bunch of custom code (some societies
award points for killing certain monster types for example) - we
can\'t be expected to provide code just because some players are
too lazy to manage their own society. Make your own website with
eqpooling and stuff if you need that functionality.
Same thing goes with society newsgroups. There are already pcity
bulletinboard code in the game (that rarely ever gets used) - use
them instead of occupying our coders with even more (useless?)
feature requests.
++ Gore
societies for eqpooling, eqsharing or whatever, don\'t expect that
we will automatically code all mechanics for you. It\'s up to
every society to decide how they run and what they do. Especially
with societies, there\'s always going to be some society-specific
need that would require a bunch of custom code (some societies
award points for killing certain monster types for example) - we
can\'t be expected to provide code just because some players are
too lazy to manage their own society. Make your own website with
eqpooling and stuff if you need that functionality.
Same thing goes with society newsgroups. There are already pcity
bulletinboard code in the game (that rarely ever gets used) - use
them instead of occupying our coders with even more (useless?)
feature requests.
++ Gore
mechanics for ss\'es, that wasnt my idea at least, I was just thinking
of newsgroup.
2) Bulletinboard can be ready by ANYONE, well yes you can arrange
something with a guard and put ppl on a list and so on, but it\'s still
more convinient with a newsgroup. Also, by making newsgroups instead of
bulletinboards, you\'d be able to read them off the web.
3) It\'s not useless as long as people want it and will use it. I cant
imagine that everything that ever got coded was a total necessity. Just
see it as a way to get some cash outta the game, and add conviniency to ss
communications
Pretty please, can we have it?
/Meri.
I am still opposed (more as a matter of principle) to wasting
valuable coding resources on implementing very specific things,
when there's already an almost similar solution in the game
that can be utilized by a little creative thinking.
For one, "newsgroups" are very abstract - they exist inside
the mudlib but they can't be touched as objects. A bulletin board
in a pcity on the other hand is a physical object and actually
fits in with the fantasymud theme.
Ofcourse a newsgroup and a bulletin board are not the exact same
things, but newsgroups IMO fit better for announcing important
game-related information (inform group) or carrying on discussions
about game development - i.e. things which do not fit directly into
the exp/eq patterns.
IMO we already provide enough mechanics for handling societies,
without making them very strict or forcing any societies to be
run one way or the other. What goes on inside the society, be it
somekind of point system for killing monsters, eqpools or just
announcements of eqruns should be handled by the guildmasters/
players of the society, based on tools we already have, and only
if there's a necessity to have something run on the mudside (something
which has to interact with mudcode), and it would benefit lots of people
should it require work from wizards. It can't be very hard for any of
you to setup a small website with a discussion system, can it? That's
the way many societies/clans from other MUDs/MPOGD's are run.
++ Gore
valuable coding resources on implementing very specific things,
when there's already an almost similar solution in the game
that can be utilized by a little creative thinking.
For one, "newsgroups" are very abstract - they exist inside
the mudlib but they can't be touched as objects. A bulletin board
in a pcity on the other hand is a physical object and actually
fits in with the fantasymud theme.
Ofcourse a newsgroup and a bulletin board are not the exact same
things, but newsgroups IMO fit better for announcing important
game-related information (inform group) or carrying on discussions
about game development - i.e. things which do not fit directly into
the exp/eq patterns.
IMO we already provide enough mechanics for handling societies,
without making them very strict or forcing any societies to be
run one way or the other. What goes on inside the society, be it
somekind of point system for killing monsters, eqpools or just
announcements of eqruns should be handled by the guildmasters/
players of the society, based on tools we already have, and only
if there's a necessity to have something run on the mudside (something
which has to interact with mudcode), and it would benefit lots of people
should it require work from wizards. It can't be very hard for any of
you to setup a small website with a discussion system, can it? That's
the way many societies/clans from other MUDs/MPOGD's are run.
++ Gore
Rating:
-1
Votes:
1
Thelo wrote:
Gotrek wrote:
I suggested this few months back, but at the moment the 'need vs cost in
codetime' wasnt high enough.
codetime' wasnt high enough.
The latest one:
< ~/code/python/eqpool > wc *.py \
admin/{credits,ctransfer,markparty,mischtml-old,selleq,showeq}.py
85 225 2260 addparty.py
31 64 499 common.py
21 32 348 credits.py
42 128 913 creditscommon.py
253 730 7145 dbaccess.py
30 56 588 history.py
20 29 384 index.py
92 243 2547 mischtml.py
65 198 2175 parties.py
16 17 183 rules.py
49 115 1071 showcredithistory.py
74 194 1928 showeq.py
34 67 728 admin/credits.py
67 213 1950 admin/ctransfer.py
56 178 1754 admin/markparty.py
71 204 2128 admin/mischtml-old.py
115 315 3081 admin/selleq.py
76 194 1948 admin/showeq.py
1197 3202 31630 total
< ~/code/python/eqpool >
Let's do little guessing:
Impleting same using LPC takes 5 times more code lines than using Python.
LPC coder with medium experience can do about 2 fully working
lines in a minute. Hmm, it means 5*1200/2/60 = 50 hours. Before coding
the system needs to be designed; let's allocate another 50 hours for the
design phase -> 100 hours totally (actual testing is done by mortals, so
no need to include testing time).
Also we assume our LPC coder is hard-working, he/she uses 3 hours of his/her
free time every day for this project. In theory we should have fully
working system in a month. (In reality it would probably take 3-6 months
since wizards don't have time to code every day.)
-Thelo
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