Dear Nikana,

Your didn't prove ANYTHING about items getting worse when they get sacced more
with that lousy excuse of a research you did. If you want to prove that you
need a large sample of the SAME item and then sac it over and over whenever
its back to black glow.

What you would have proven with a ten times bigger sample of random shit is
that the amount of letters your demon has is quite directly relative to the
sac value of the item. But with that low sample size it's probably too hard
for you to see because of the random factor.

I'm not saying that the spider demon making is working properly at the moment.
The randomness caused by having all the possible spells and skills as demon
bonuses is stupid. But my point is that you might want to learn some basic
statistics before posting stupid "my research proves" posts.

is....

Valentina Flail, 6.47m, Rechie Foot, 7.19m, and Ixii Sceptre, 3.39m, are shit
items now? Good to know. Get 10x of each? Okay, Valentina only takes 10+
hours to do. Rechie is only 3 month prot or so. Ixii takes 18 people to
kill.

ideas-wanted 10262, Rating: 36 Votes: 40. Obviously, you are one of the 2
people that disagreed with the rest of the 38, Torc! To quote Era,'Now, I
know the sac values of many many items have been lowered, so the sac formulas
could perhaps use with some re-evaluating. It works, so I'm not going to try
to fix it...' So basically, yea, if you made demons back in the day. Kudos,
enjoy and reap the reward. Those that are newish to the guild, good luck.

So, rather than spit your venom at me, because I'm a spokesman for the
majority and I posted some details on spider sac'ing, how about 1.) We raise
the sac value on some items. 2.) Put a more high (3m+) sac items in the game.
Since we all agree that messing with the code is too much of a pain. At
least this will be a 'work around' to the problem that the majority and the
spider GM agree needs work.

No, you fucking moron. To prove that the items get worse the more you sac them
you don't need to get 10 super valuable items. You need to get 100 of ANY item
and test with that. The point is that it has to be the SAME item. Get couple
dozens of spider sabres or so and test with those. You might actually even get
some pretty decent demons in doing so. Or do you think that only the most
valuable items get worse when sacced more?

Now what comes to people agreeing with you. I don't think that 95% of the
players in game have ever even tried making a spider demon. And why is that?
It seems that most people are so sure that you can't get any good demons
anymore that they don't even try. Or then they try once and when the result is
not perfect they just give up and start whining instead. They forget that
because of the random factor, the demon making is more about quantities of
sacrifices, not that much about quality. Just sacrifice all the useless junk
with semi-decent sacvalue and you will eventually get ok demons, atleast I
did. And people even pay megs for those demons made of shitty items that would
have sold on sales for 100k.

And to be honest, I don't even understand why you are whining. You made
several very good demons there. You just seem to assume that every old player
has those 400/400max demons with all stats maxed made of unique items and of
which most have been removed ages ago. Just be happy with your superb
26-letter demon and start using it. And stop this stupid whining.

I never made any demons from spider sabres, neither did I make any demons from
rolf axes. I did make demons from decent/high value items, they were pretty
shit.
Assuming the sac value makes some difference, then saccing 100x spider sabres
would be in vain. Let's value demon strengths with numbers, this is all
hypotethical! Demons made from 1m sac items can value from 0 to 10. Demons
made from spider sabre can value from 0 to 1. Now, if you were to sac 100x
spider sabres you'd get 100x demons with either 0 value or 1 value. It would
make zero difference statistically whether the last 50 demons were 0 value or
every other.
I understand the whine, while Baltzebub may have sacced 100x xormors for a
400/400 demon, it's understandable that nowadays it'd require 100x rabbit
foots for a 400/400 demon. That's all reasonable and everything of course.

I'm not mad, just to be clear I can still use some demon someone did from
some spider sabre 10 years ago that has 15 less letters than the best demon I
got from my sac-round but still is about 2times more powerful.
I'm happy he got several 200/200 demons from less than 1m sac item, my
personal best was 150/120 from a 4,5m sac item. Since there's random, that can
of course be blamed.
This may all sound bitter and everything, but since it doesn't affect me
(hasn't affected in a long time after the failure-to-control tune), I have no
reason to be mad or angry or anything to that extent. I'm simply pointing out
I have sympathy for Nikana.