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BatMUD Forums > General > Re: Hp-tune...
just to clarify things, I\'m going to use myself as an example throughout the
whole of this post.
and yes, it\'s about the recent hp-tune and yes feel free to skip it and also
skip the \"stop whining\" if that\'s all you can contribute with.
here goes:
with full (100%) con and full super characteristics boon, 40 con from ss and
max levels in templars guild, I now (post-tune) end up with these stats
(naked):
Con: Unearthly (243) -- Hp: 995 (995)
Before the tune I had a neat 1150 hps with the same con of course. I\'ve
looked around a bit at the other (highlevel) hybrids (non-nomads) and it seems
that bardtanks lost ~75% (or maybe a bit less) of what good_relig lost, and
evil_relig lost even less then that (not to mention the fact that demons still
are based on hpmax instead of con, which rules them out of this tune).
During the last few months hybrids have suffered quite a number of serious
downtunes; the tune in hpmax \"prot\" spells (so that nowdays, a
non-nomad gets about 1/3 of what a nomad gets from war/aoh atleast), secret
society tune (yes, everyone was affected but it struck hardest on hybrid
tanks), the str vs. dam tune when it comes to offtanking (not every hybrid has
the amount of taskpoints to spend it on a full str boon), good players not
being able to have demons conjured on them, and now this last tune.
Up until this last tune, pretty much all of them made sense or had some
reasonable grounds. Hybrids were out of tune and something had to be done! A
second reason was that; \"OMG! No one plays nomad!\"
The reasons behinds this seems to be as follows (direct quotes, freely
translated):
usually have) > and on top of that are full healers and can take a few
blasts if needed\"
ok, I\'d like to ask how many hyrbids out there that have 1300+ hp\'s naked?
And how many of you templartarmas are as good healers as a maxed backrow
tarm?
I think I have the answers to both of my questions: one or two with 1300+ hps,
and none are as good as a tarmnun or a tarmdruid, we have issues like
interrupts to deal with, on top of the fact that we dont get anywhere NEAR a
casters stats. Correct me if I\'m wrong.
tank with > \"full healer, it gets too good compared to others\"
I\'m assuming \"others\" are nomads? There are people that play
nomads still, and they do occur in top-end eq parties, let the ones that like
playing nomad do it, or uptune the nomad background instead of fucking over
the others? And as for \"full healer\", well like I stated before, a
templartarm/monktarm arent close to a tarmdruid/tarmnun.
have some > \"difference.\"
Anyone that has participated in an eq party during the last few months knows
that this is simply not the case. Myself as a templar tarm get somewhere
around 1700 hps as max with the most common hpmax prots, while nomads would
get easily over 2300 with the same prots.
that has the > \"advantade of healing itself\"
It WAS a lot harder even before this tune, why make it such a pain no one will
play these combos? You need boons, exp and eq to even have a chance at playing
this kind of character, and not even when you\'ve struggled to get there, you
allow us to be somewhat decent.
No matter what the administration says, I think the main idea of this tune was
to make the gap between nomad and hybrid tanks smaller (-> more people will
go nomad), and I think tuning hybrids to less playable is the wrong way. Add
more spice or uptunes to nomads, the hybrids already have to cope with several
disadvantages as it is.
So many of us enjoy playing hybrid\'s and this downtune (and the one\'s that
are going to follow if you keep thinking it\'s a good way of getting people to
reinc nomad) was just a bit too much.
whole of this post.
and yes, it\'s about the recent hp-tune and yes feel free to skip it and also
skip the \"stop whining\" if that\'s all you can contribute with.
here goes:
with full (100%) con and full super characteristics boon, 40 con from ss and
max levels in templars guild, I now (post-tune) end up with these stats
(naked):
Con: Unearthly (243) -- Hp: 995 (995)
Before the tune I had a neat 1150 hps with the same con of course. I\'ve
looked around a bit at the other (highlevel) hybrids (non-nomads) and it seems
that bardtanks lost ~75% (or maybe a bit less) of what good_relig lost, and
evil_relig lost even less then that (not to mention the fact that demons still
are based on hpmax instead of con, which rules them out of this tune).
During the last few months hybrids have suffered quite a number of serious
downtunes; the tune in hpmax \"prot\" spells (so that nowdays, a
non-nomad gets about 1/3 of what a nomad gets from war/aoh atleast), secret
society tune (yes, everyone was affected but it struck hardest on hybrid
tanks), the str vs. dam tune when it comes to offtanking (not every hybrid has
the amount of taskpoints to spend it on a full str boon), good players not
being able to have demons conjured on them, and now this last tune.
Up until this last tune, pretty much all of them made sense or had some
reasonable grounds. Hybrids were out of tune and something had to be done! A
second reason was that; \"OMG! No one plays nomad!\"
The reasons behinds this seems to be as follows (direct quotes, freely
translated):
Quote:
\"they are too good when they have 1300+ hp\'s (which is what nomads
blasts if needed\"
ok, I\'d like to ask how many hyrbids out there that have 1300+ hp\'s naked?
And how many of you templartarmas are as good healers as a maxed backrow
tarm?
I think I have the answers to both of my questions: one or two with 1300+ hps,
and none are as good as a tarmnun or a tarmdruid, we have issues like
interrupts to deal with, on top of the fact that we dont get anywhere NEAR a
casters stats. Correct me if I\'m wrong.
Quote:
\"in the opinion of the wizzes, you shouldnt be able to combine full
I\'m assuming \"others\" are nomads? There are people that play
nomads still, and they do occur in top-end eq parties, let the ones that like
playing nomad do it, or uptune the nomad background instead of fucking over
the others? And as for \"full healer\", well like I stated before, a
templartarm/monktarm arent close to a tarmdruid/tarmnun.
Quote:
\"before this there was not any big changes in hp\'s, now we finally
Anyone that has participated in an eq party during the last few months knows
that this is simply not the case. Myself as a templar tarm get somewhere
around 1700 hps as max with the most common hpmax prots, while nomads would
get easily over 2300 with the same prots.
Quote:
\"we want it to be a little bit harder to do eq with a hybrid tank
It WAS a lot harder even before this tune, why make it such a pain no one will
play these combos? You need boons, exp and eq to even have a chance at playing
this kind of character, and not even when you\'ve struggled to get there, you
allow us to be somewhat decent.
No matter what the administration says, I think the main idea of this tune was
to make the gap between nomad and hybrid tanks smaller (-> more people will
go nomad), and I think tuning hybrids to less playable is the wrong way. Add
more spice or uptunes to nomads, the hybrids already have to cope with several
disadvantages as it is.
So many of us enjoy playing hybrid\'s and this downtune (and the one\'s that
are going to follow if you keep thinking it\'s a good way of getting people to
reinc nomad) was just a bit too much.
Rating:
-4
Votes:
13
I guess some people just can't read. This was not
about forcing anybody to be a nomad, or to make sure
that nomads do well in eq parties.
The truth of the matter is that hybrids are always
a challenge from a tune perspective - I don't know
any games (either mmorpg's or traditional rpg's)
that haven't had somekind of tune problems with their
hybrid implementations. When you combine a tank with
the ability to heal (and possibly even the ability
to blast) it will lead to tune issues. Your party
doing 40k/min sustained rate for 3 hours was one
example of that - in which you were both the lone
tank and lone healer with virtually no need for
regen.
I'll say it once and for all - powerwise hybrids are
not and should not be as good as "pure" characters
(be they healers, mages or nomadic tanks). The benefit
of hybrids are that they combine powers of several of
the groups above, and are thus less dependant on the
services of partymembers (a hybrid blaster-tank can
solo, a "pure" mage usually can't). This may not fit
with everybody's view - especially those that so want
to optimize their reincs for ultimate power - to reach
that you need to specialize.
++ Gore
about forcing anybody to be a nomad, or to make sure
that nomads do well in eq parties.
The truth of the matter is that hybrids are always
a challenge from a tune perspective - I don't know
any games (either mmorpg's or traditional rpg's)
that haven't had somekind of tune problems with their
hybrid implementations. When you combine a tank with
the ability to heal (and possibly even the ability
to blast) it will lead to tune issues. Your party
doing 40k/min sustained rate for 3 hours was one
example of that - in which you were both the lone
tank and lone healer with virtually no need for
regen.
I'll say it once and for all - powerwise hybrids are
not and should not be as good as "pure" characters
(be they healers, mages or nomadic tanks). The benefit
of hybrids are that they combine powers of several of
the groups above, and are thus less dependant on the
services of partymembers (a hybrid blaster-tank can
solo, a "pure" mage usually can't). This may not fit
with everybody's view - especially those that so want
to optimize their reincs for ultimate power - to reach
that you need to specialize.
++ Gore
Rating:
3
Votes:
5
I think I stated it more then once in my post, but since some of us doesnt seem to be able to read, here goes; there is not a single hybrid which is as good or better in the \"caster\" part of his character then a backrow caster with the same guild is (ie a templar cant heal as good as a tarmnun/tarmdruid, a habotank certainly cant cast as fast or as good habos as a backrow priest, a bard cant cast as many, as fast, or as good bard spells as a backrow bard can, want me to go on?). For several reasons; they wont have the same stats as a backrow caster will, they have to cope with being interrupted, they cant (very often at least) wear eq that enhances spellcasting but HAS to wear tank eq and they tick like shit compared to the backrow character.
And what comes to doing 40k/h for 3h with a 3-man party?
1) Guess I\'ll just do it again and wait for next downtune,
2) What\'s wrong with doing 40k for 3h in a 3-man party? We ran a lot of different areas, mostly killed things in \'a lot\' exp-tune and that is what pays off with this exptune.
3) We did regen, and dont blame me (with 650spmax and 120 tick) for not regenning as much as \"one should\", there was two blasters with approx 2000spmax and 220+ tick in the party too, with several pieces of eq with sp storage abilities.
And what comes to doing 40k/h for 3h with a 3-man party?
1) Guess I\'ll just do it again and wait for next downtune,
2) What\'s wrong with doing 40k for 3h in a 3-man party? We ran a lot of different areas, mostly killed things in \'a lot\' exp-tune and that is what pays off with this exptune.
3) We did regen, and dont blame me (with 650spmax and 120 tick) for not regenning as much as \"one should\", there was two blasters with approx 2000spmax and 220+ tick in the party too, with several pieces of eq with sp storage abilities.
Rating:
-4
Votes:
6
I don't think you and I quite understand each other.
I'll try to make my point once more and then leave it
at that.
This tune wasn't aimed at any one particular background,
or only hybrids tho it's true that some hybrid combos
got more hurt than others. I realize that some people are
upset, it's never fun to lose something you have worked
hard to gain.
In your previous post you mentioned "downgrades" such as
good's not able to have demons on them. From my point of
view, that wasn't a downgrade - the error was made when
demons were initially allowed on good's to begin with,
nobody saw the implications it could have on guilds. This
is just one such example - there are many others. The
bottom line tho, is that the amount of hitpoints in
various backgrounds (and players) has grown alot during
the years. And it's not just because players have gotten
more exp, there has been more and more features (demons,
spells, items, societies) added to the game that all
stack up.
So we've now imposed something of a limit (on a per-
background basis, but it's there for all backgrounds
it just differs in amount) for how much hp can be easily
obtained. After that, it becomes progressively harder to
gain more hitpoints. I still say that this wasn't about
trying to punish anybody for being good, or trying to
reward nomads or whatever, this was IMO way overdue and
my "fear" is that without such a limit, we would in a few
years, as more similar stackable ways of gaining hp are
added, have hybrids with 2000+ hitpoints and nomads with
3000+ hitpoints.
I'm not going to argue this point further and waste
space in news. I would probably be pissed myself if I
was a player and I had just lost hitpoints in a fresh
reinc. However, from an administrative viewpoint as some-
one who tries to make sure that the game can be challenging
in the future as well for everybody involved, this does
make sense, and I'm going to stick to that.
++ Gore
P.s. This article kind of describes what was changed and how, so we
even fulfill the one request for more information that was posted
earlier into this newsgroup.
I'll try to make my point once more and then leave it
at that.
This tune wasn't aimed at any one particular background,
or only hybrids tho it's true that some hybrid combos
got more hurt than others. I realize that some people are
upset, it's never fun to lose something you have worked
hard to gain.
In your previous post you mentioned "downgrades" such as
good's not able to have demons on them. From my point of
view, that wasn't a downgrade - the error was made when
demons were initially allowed on good's to begin with,
nobody saw the implications it could have on guilds. This
is just one such example - there are many others. The
bottom line tho, is that the amount of hitpoints in
various backgrounds (and players) has grown alot during
the years. And it's not just because players have gotten
more exp, there has been more and more features (demons,
spells, items, societies) added to the game that all
stack up.
So we've now imposed something of a limit (on a per-
background basis, but it's there for all backgrounds
it just differs in amount) for how much hp can be easily
obtained. After that, it becomes progressively harder to
gain more hitpoints. I still say that this wasn't about
trying to punish anybody for being good, or trying to
reward nomads or whatever, this was IMO way overdue and
my "fear" is that without such a limit, we would in a few
years, as more similar stackable ways of gaining hp are
added, have hybrids with 2000+ hitpoints and nomads with
3000+ hitpoints.
I'm not going to argue this point further and waste
space in news. I would probably be pissed myself if I
was a player and I had just lost hitpoints in a fresh
reinc. However, from an administrative viewpoint as some-
one who tries to make sure that the game can be challenging
in the future as well for everybody involved, this does
make sense, and I'm going to stick to that.
++ Gore
P.s. This article kind of describes what was changed and how, so we
even fulfill the one request for more information that was posted
earlier into this newsgroup.
Gore
A r c h w i z a r d
6y, 198d, 20h, 55m, 49s old
Level:
600 [Wizard]
So, if someone is able to do 40k/min 3man, that combo gets tuned because its too powerful?
You are admitting that every \'balance\' tune is because highbies are too powerful? Do you realise that you are just making it harder for non-highbies?
Do you care?
That\'s messed up shit, basing all tunes on highbies and their amazing rates
You are admitting that every \'balance\' tune is because highbies are too powerful? Do you realise that you are just making it harder for non-highbies?
Do you care?
That\'s messed up shit, basing all tunes on highbies and their amazing rates
Quote:
I guess some people just can\'t read. This was not
about forcing anybody to be a nomad, or to make sure
that nomads do well in eq parties.
The truth of the matter is that hybrids are always
a challenge from a tune perspective - I don\'t know
any games (either mmorpg\'s or traditional rpg\'s)
that haven\'t had somekind of tune problems with their
hybrid implementations. When you combine a tank with
the ability to heal (and possibly even the ability
to blast) it will lead to tune issues. Your party
doing 40k/min sustained rate for 3 hours was one
example of that - in which you were both the lone
tank and lone healer with virtually no need for
regen.
I\'ll say it once and for all - powerwise hybrids are
not and should not be as good as \"pure\" characters
(be they healers, mages or nomadic tanks). The benefit
of hybrids are that they combine powers of several of
the groups above, and are thus less dependant on the
services of partymembers (a hybrid blaster-tank can
solo, a \"pure\" mage usually can\'t). This may not fit
with everybody\'s view - especially those that so want
to optimize their reincs for ultimate power - to reach
that you need to specialize.
++ Gore
about forcing anybody to be a nomad, or to make sure
that nomads do well in eq parties.
The truth of the matter is that hybrids are always
a challenge from a tune perspective - I don\'t know
any games (either mmorpg\'s or traditional rpg\'s)
that haven\'t had somekind of tune problems with their
hybrid implementations. When you combine a tank with
the ability to heal (and possibly even the ability
to blast) it will lead to tune issues. Your party
doing 40k/min sustained rate for 3 hours was one
example of that - in which you were both the lone
tank and lone healer with virtually no need for
regen.
I\'ll say it once and for all - powerwise hybrids are
not and should not be as good as \"pure\" characters
(be they healers, mages or nomadic tanks). The benefit
of hybrids are that they combine powers of several of
the groups above, and are thus less dependant on the
services of partymembers (a hybrid blaster-tank can
solo, a \"pure\" mage usually can\'t). This may not fit
with everybody\'s view - especially those that so want
to optimize their reincs for ultimate power - to reach
that you need to specialize.
++ Gore
Rating:
-3
Votes:
5
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