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BatMUD Forums > General > Re: A boring rant about pigs and the playpen
Hi! It's the mostly retired asshole writing here! As usual, many, if not most,
people seem to have misunderstood the "batmaps have been stolen .." quip
completely. It is not my or Jeskko's intention to go all "Twomi" on you, but
to generally laugh at the whole noise around the player castle raiding debacle
- but also to empathize with the victims.
Now, one might ask why we care, after all none of our stuff got robbed
(despite what some people have been speculating). For me personally, this
question is two-pronged - On the other hand, many of those people who were
raided are friends of mine and this is the reason I care.
But ... in many ways, I also see the point of the opposing side. The raiders
had the right to do what they did, there are no rules against robbing stuff
after all. The defence of the castles that were robbed clear had been very
weak, which enabled these people to go where the fence was lowest.
The reaction most people have had is related to the latter view: "these people
got what they deserved". But did they really? What many players here don't
seem to get is that not everyone has the same playing style. We often talk
about the distinction between "casual players" and "hardcore players", but
there are about as many playing styles as there are players.
Several of the people I know who were robbed certainly aren't "hardcore" -
they played for fun, didn't have enough money for proper guards (making money
isn't that easy for everyone, say what you say).. they played for occasional
fun and most likely didn't even expect that someone would rob them dry.
Did they "deserve" what they got?
...
This finally brings me to my own point, the reason for this private
"demonstration" we put up... Now, I don't think that I'm some high and mighty
shining beacon of knowledge and righteousness, nor do I think that I have any
right to be passing out any rules or laws to anyone... but despite that (and
despite all the bs that has been said about me and probably will be said) I'm
going to state what I personally think:
If you want to prey on the weak and take their stuff - go ahead. They
certainly cannot stop you, and probably nobody else will bother either because
they are blinded by their own self-righteous views of how this game works and
how it should work.
This has just been a reminder that sometimes there may be repercussions.
--
Ggr
P.S. The maps will be back.
people seem to have misunderstood the "batmaps have been stolen .." quip
completely. It is not my or Jeskko's intention to go all "Twomi" on you, but
to generally laugh at the whole noise around the player castle raiding debacle
- but also to empathize with the victims.
Now, one might ask why we care, after all none of our stuff got robbed
(despite what some people have been speculating). For me personally, this
question is two-pronged - On the other hand, many of those people who were
raided are friends of mine and this is the reason I care.
But ... in many ways, I also see the point of the opposing side. The raiders
had the right to do what they did, there are no rules against robbing stuff
after all. The defence of the castles that were robbed clear had been very
weak, which enabled these people to go where the fence was lowest.
The reaction most people have had is related to the latter view: "these people
got what they deserved". But did they really? What many players here don't
seem to get is that not everyone has the same playing style. We often talk
about the distinction between "casual players" and "hardcore players", but
there are about as many playing styles as there are players.
Several of the people I know who were robbed certainly aren't "hardcore" -
they played for fun, didn't have enough money for proper guards (making money
isn't that easy for everyone, say what you say).. they played for occasional
fun and most likely didn't even expect that someone would rob them dry.
Did they "deserve" what they got?
...
This finally brings me to my own point, the reason for this private
"demonstration" we put up... Now, I don't think that I'm some high and mighty
shining beacon of knowledge and righteousness, nor do I think that I have any
right to be passing out any rules or laws to anyone... but despite that (and
despite all the bs that has been said about me and probably will be said) I'm
going to state what I personally think:
If you want to prey on the weak and take their stuff - go ahead. They
certainly cannot stop you, and probably nobody else will bother either because
they are blinded by their own self-righteous views of how this game works and
how it should work.
This has just been a reminder that sometimes there may be repercussions.
--
Ggr
P.S. The maps will be back.
Rating:
23
Votes:
26
The unfortunate impact that these "show of support" actions has, is that
it forces the administration to yet again rethink relying on external
sites for support. As the maps were no longer available on player sites
(and removing them is naturally the right of their authors), work has
been started to provide them through www.bat.org instead. This is a
duplicate effort and time that could probably have been better spent in
developing the game itself.
-- Gore
it forces the administration to yet again rethink relying on external
sites for support. As the maps were no longer available on player sites
(and removing them is naturally the right of their authors), work has
been started to provide them through www.bat.org instead. This is a
duplicate effort and time that could probably have been better spent in
developing the game itself.
-- Gore
Rating:
6
Votes:
21
Gore
A r c h w i z a r d
9y, 206d, 19h, 30m, 29s old
Level:
600 [Wizard]
If time could be better spent developing the game, and you already know that
it would be a better time spending activity, why then, not develop the game
instead of work on the maps? Or was this just an excuse to whine (much those
mortal whines that wizards are so fond of complaining about)?
Seriously, there haven't been maps like that on bat,org before, why must there
be some now? If you think its a waste of time, dont bother with it, and let
people use Ooga's maps which are still up, or let more players develop new
maps/tools.
it would be a better time spending activity, why then, not develop the game
instead of work on the maps? Or was this just an excuse to whine (much those
mortal whines that wizards are so fond of complaining about)?
Seriously, there haven't been maps like that on bat,org before, why must there
be some now? If you think its a waste of time, dont bother with it, and let
people use Ooga's maps which are still up, or let more players develop new
maps/tools.
I dont know if you are just daft or something?
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
Rating:
-1
Votes:
21
Gore
A r c h w i z a r d
9y, 206d, 20h, 30m, 31s old
Level:
600 [Wizard] Gore wrote:
I dont know if you are just daft or something?
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
area maps will also be provided on www.bat.org? Those are all on
other players sites or were and are used by players.
Rating:
8
Votes:
12
Fade wrote:
Gore wrote:
I dont know if you are just daft or something?
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
area maps will also be provided on www.bat.org? Those are all on
other players sites or were and are used by players.
a long time..so why should they waste even more time doing shit that is
already there?..also, i think maps are more important to people(specially
with such big continents) then stupid race infos eq info and area maps(heard
of exploring? if you want area maps, make them yourself)..i think the only
thing people would really want from that list would be a reinc sim, which if
you remember, someone was supposed to be working on slowly..but with
continuous whines about it, and the request for these maps..don't you think
they would stop working on those?
Rating:
-2
Votes:
4
Xortoth wrote:
Fade wrote:
Gore wrote:
I dont know if you are just daft or something?
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
Obviously players have found the maps that have been provided on
these support sites useful, and when they suddenly are no longer
available they approach the admins to get a replacement for them.
Until now that has not been needed, as several players have
generously provided this, but incidents like this highlight that
if is solely provided by players then it cannot be taken for
granted.
-- Gore
area maps will also be provided on www.bat.org? Those are all on
other players sites or were and are used by players.
a long time..so why should they waste even more time doing shit that is
already there?..also, i think maps are more important to people(specially
with such big continents) then stupid race infos eq info and area maps(heard
of exploring? if you want area maps, make them yourself)..i think the only
thing people would really want from that list would be a reinc sim, which if
you remember, someone was supposed to be working on slowly..but with
continuous whines about it, and the request for these maps..don't you think
they would stop working on those?
sarcastic. I will have to work on my sarcasm in my writing. Maps are still
out there as well. So it is wastful rework. Maybe is I had quest walkthroughs
it would have come off as more sarcastic. Darn.
Gore wrote:
The unfortunate impact that these "show of support" actions has, is that
it forces the administration to yet again rethink relying on external
sites for support. As the maps were no longer available on player sites
(and removing them is naturally the right of their authors), work has
been started to provide them through www.bat.org instead. This is a
duplicate effort and time that could probably have been better spent in
developing the game itself.
-- Gore
it forces the administration to yet again rethink relying on external
sites for support. As the maps were no longer available on player sites
(and removing them is naturally the right of their authors), work has
been started to provide them through www.bat.org instead. This is a
duplicate effort and time that could probably have been better spent in
developing the game itself.
-- Gore
has done it. I have even offered to provide sysadmin, perl, whatever code to
make it work if that helps. I don't want to maintain maps, but at the
continent tune we got a downgrade in not being able to have any officially
provided maps any more. Will it help bat host these internally faster if I do
a show of support as well?
Rating:
15
Votes:
17
Ooga wrote:
I have been trying for months to get bat.org to host maps and such, but nobody
has done it. I have even offered to provide sysadmin, perl, whatever code to
make it work if that helps. I don't want to maintain maps, but at the
continent tune we got a downgrade in not being able to have any officially
has done it. I have even offered to provide sysadmin, perl, whatever code to
make it work if that helps. I don't want to maintain maps, but at the
continent tune we got a downgrade in not being able to have any officially
Quote:
a show of support as well?
53% complete
Having seen Ooga's post I'm a bit worried if it is overlyhard to get playermade stuff hosted on Bat's pages. The way I've tried to
implement the sim is to have all the data come from the mud itself, so I
can't host it myself. Or I could, but then I'd have to figure out all the
sicrit formulas
Anyways, if some nice wiz could comment on this subject?
(would give me additional motivation/demotivation to continue
Rating:
11
Votes:
11
I am not a nice wiz, but I will comment anyway
It is not overly hard to get stuff hosted on bat.org. We can
setup either virtual hosts, or alternatively make it part of
www.bat.org (but then code maintenance is a bit trickier).
I spoke to Ooga (and some other map maintainers) last night,
and the reason why their situation has been complicated is
because it involved arranging for automatic updating of the
mapdata from the MUD. This has been controversial as some in
the administration have felt that it makes finding new areas
too trivial (just compare the diff of the old and new map)
and requires no player exploration. We will discuss and
rethink this position though, as there are clearly benefits
also to autoupdating maps.
So in short - hosting bat-related stuff through bat.org is
not a problem, the problems is if the stuff needs direct
access to BatMUD data that is not normally and directly
available to players.
Finally, a big thank you to those few players that have
over the years gone out on a limb to offer (often thankless)
services to this small community.
-- Gore
It is not overly hard to get stuff hosted on bat.org. We can
setup either virtual hosts, or alternatively make it part of
www.bat.org (but then code maintenance is a bit trickier).
I spoke to Ooga (and some other map maintainers) last night,
and the reason why their situation has been complicated is
because it involved arranging for automatic updating of the
mapdata from the MUD. This has been controversial as some in
the administration have felt that it makes finding new areas
too trivial (just compare the diff of the old and new map)
and requires no player exploration. We will discuss and
rethink this position though, as there are clearly benefits
also to autoupdating maps.
So in short - hosting bat-related stuff through bat.org is
not a problem, the problems is if the stuff needs direct
access to BatMUD data that is not normally and directly
available to players.
Finally, a big thank you to those few players that have
over the years gone out on a limb to offer (often thankless)
services to this small community.
-- Gore
Rating:
10
Votes:
13
Gore wrote:
I am not a nice wiz, but I will comment anyway
It is not overly hard to get stuff hosted on bat.org. We can
setup either virtual hosts, or alternatively make it part of
www.bat.org (but then code maintenance is a bit trickier).
I spoke to Ooga (and some other map maintainers) last night,
and the reason why their situation has been complicated is
because it involved arranging for automatic updating of the
mapdata from the MUD. This has been controversial as some in
the administration have felt that it makes finding new areas
too trivial (just compare the diff of the old and new map)
and requires no player exploration. We will discuss and
rethink this position though, as there are clearly benefits
also to autoupdating maps.
So in short - hosting bat-related stuff through bat.org is
not a problem, the problems is if the stuff needs direct
access to BatMUD data that is not normally and directly
available to players.
Finally, a big thank you to those few players that have
over the years gone out on a limb to offer (often thankless)
services to this small community.
-- Gore
It is not overly hard to get stuff hosted on bat.org. We can
setup either virtual hosts, or alternatively make it part of
www.bat.org (but then code maintenance is a bit trickier).
I spoke to Ooga (and some other map maintainers) last night,
and the reason why their situation has been complicated is
because it involved arranging for automatic updating of the
mapdata from the MUD. This has been controversial as some in
the administration have felt that it makes finding new areas
too trivial (just compare the diff of the old and new map)
and requires no player exploration. We will discuss and
rethink this position though, as there are clearly benefits
also to autoupdating maps.
So in short - hosting bat-related stuff through bat.org is
not a problem, the problems is if the stuff needs direct
access to BatMUD data that is not normally and directly
available to players.
Finally, a big thank you to those few players that have
over the years gone out on a limb to offer (often thankless)
services to this small community.
-- Gore
maps. I think these are a nice tool for newer players to bat and casual
players as well.
Regarding auto-update, I dont believe it has to be all or none. Some areas
shouldn't be marked and should be found through hard exploration, and those
are the ones that should be found on player supported websites. For the newley
initiated maps make the game infinitely more accesable and help as a general
point of reference to the game.
Rating:
3
Votes:
3
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