Gentlemen and fellow BatMUD friends,

It has now closing on two weeks since the public shout out from Kirya and two
from silent removal of his BatMUD-account and not a hush of information more
has been given so we have to work with what we have. I really urge you to read
general posts 3687&3688 but if you didn't I'll pick one quote:

"nor would i wan't to play anymore under the fear that any given time when Mr.
Juggelo get's another whim he might just remove my character again."

This is in my opinion one of the most important parts of the Kirya post and
want to really give emphasis on it and if reading this, stop and think about
it for a minute. This is something I wish to be no part in here with - not now
nor in future... and there should be no way this kind of feelings should ever
surface in this small and active gaming community. I (or no one) do not wish
having to constantly look behind my back and thinking might someone destroy my
work, invested time and money without a reason given.


(Whim)Remove has its place. Its one of the tools to give easy leverage and
authority over _in-game_ rule breaking or similar illguided actions. But its
not a tool for personal vendetta. So dear respected Mr. Juggelo, please come
forth with dignity to explain your actions to Kirya and us. Being in Arch
position and member of Bat.ry board is a place of trust and responsibility. We
do not want a case of Zonni2 in here and currently it is showing as we have
one on our hands (without better insight).

If this is too much to ask, then I kindly ask for any other Arch or board
member with insight to chip in and say what will be the future of this, will
there be some guideline changes towards bans/removes (because this certainly
is not currently the atmosphere I wish to spend my time in). Or if we have
been misled/misinformed and if so what were Kiryas misdoings towards BatMUD,
bat.ry or its fellow community. I'm personally open for a real grown up
conversation about this but lets keep it public so anyone can chip in. This is
a really important topic that is risen with this one _possible_ overstep and
_possible_ misuse of given authority.


Like it or not BatMUD and the related Bat.ry is close to a professional
organization. It accepts donations, it owns assets (capital, machines) and
much intellectual property, utilizes work hours of passionate amateurs and
experts, hosts public events (gala), works with community of hundreds or even
thousands in some extent, touches lives and is trying to keep a trustworthy
imago - and, despite mostly administrated and upkept by us common people, the
organization and action of its members should be evaluated at the status it
operates. This level of action taken is (evaluated with the current info on
hand) just pure cyberbullying and extortion and something that just cannot be
tolerated without questioning in any context.

I sincerely wish this can be sorted out and the shadow can be cast away before
the joys of birthday Gala get closer.

Best regards,
Teemu aka Zerks

PS. Personally I don't feel there is sadly anything to be done really to
Kirya's will to continue here (at least I wouldn't want to if I were him) but
the important question here is how we will deny this from happening in the
future.

PSS. This wasn't 'Flame'-group but still on behalf of many voices in community
a Finnish nutshell: Vittu mitä paskaa

Thanks for keeping this topic alive, Zerks.

Without having or taking any side on this quarrel also I find it important to
have guidelines on which in-game consequences can be imposed.

I don't call for a full disclosure of the events as it clearly seems to be a
personal issue, but what I feel important is a disclosure of the official
policy here - is it really so, that it is ok to settle off-game disputes by
making vain the years of effort and for one party of a personal quarrel to
banish the other party from the community.

For admin (arches) to have a total (and perhaps even unquestioned) control
over the _game_ is important, but if that control is exercized on issues not
related to the game in anyway, the policy is definately not constructive.

Community building for 25 years is something a very few on-line communities
can boast with - like Zerks pointed out, we have had our not-so-constructive
times and cases, but I had the feeling that those times have been over for a
while already and we can all enjoy this game in a way each of us wants, it
being coding, grinding or just chatting. The, in my opinion, unjustified
actions taken recently may take us back many years in this respect.

I apologize for my critique if there are some game-rule-breaking behind the
actions, but unfortunately, based on the information given, this really looks
like a case of personal revenge.

I, like apparently 266 other players, am really waiting for the Gala to have
one more opportunity to show to myself, to other players and to the external
community that BatMUD is something much more than just a game. Therefore I
would really appreciate if some respected person amongst the admin stepped up
and made a statement on this case or rather on the policy. BatMUD is of
course a free game and the administration is not obliged to make any
statements on this or any other case. And while silently approving the implied
behaviour and not having an official admin guideline on this will probably not
spoil the Gala-event or any future events, it will definately not increase the
sense of community.

[ clip - Text straight outta the 90's - clip ]

I propose we leave this discussion behind and go forward.
While I know the current policy does not and will not keep us
from playing, it is unaccetable that we lose a single player
because of it.

Let's leave the dark ages behind and replace 'help whim death'
with: 'help whim banishment' and 'help death by archwizard consensus'

To You it might seem like need for drama, to us it is need to know if the
person in a position that can void years of work/hobby/social interaction has
lost it and using power given by society to carry out a personal vendetta.
Circumcision has been 'right thing to do' for nearly 2k years. Slavery was
great for nearly 10k years. Harassing players until they stopped playing was ok
for good 15 years.
From all the possible people, and persons, in the game I am disappointed that
You pull out the 'Because it is old, it is right' -card.
And we that don't see the source code do perkele hope Juggelo did this
removal based on what he sees Kirya doing ingame and not acting on personal
bases. Because that is not the kind of actions for people in such high places
to do to keep this community going and the game running/pleasant. How was
Juggelo's actions not against the common rules (help rules)? Was not RL mixed
with ingame stuff. Whats the next step? Personal favors to archs or removal?

I do get where this 'archwizards are assholes' hails from but it is totally
different to be administrative asshole and just plain asshole. Administrative
assholes gets you a parking ticket for your badly/wrong/overtime parked car.
Real asshole keys your car.
Is Juggelo keying Kirya's car or writing a ticket? Having bad words with a
friend, or even loosing one, is shit business but torching someones hobby is
quite new low.
I dare to say the we don't want public debates (sorry, I don't fancy
popcorn). We want people in power to be just and fair.
"With great power comes great responsibility".

A hits you.